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  #11  
Old 03-13-2018, 03:53 PM
spock999 spock999 is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

This is my Build
GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming (Intel LGA1151/ Z370/ ATX/ 2xM.2/ Front USB 3.1/ RGB Fusion/ Fan Stop / SLI / Motherboard)
Intel BX80684I78700K 8th Gen Core i7-8700K Processor
Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16GB) 3200 MHz 288-Pin DDR4 DRAM C16 Memory Kit, Black (CMK32GX4M2B3200C16)
Corsair Hydro Series H55 Quiet Edition Liquid CPU Cooler CW-9060010-WW
WD Black 512GB Performance SSD - 8 Gb/s M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe Solid State Drive – WDS512G1X0C

OLD Stuff
Antec Case
Geforce GTX 650 ti
2 TB HDD for Saves Project
500 GB SSD for samble
I run the OS on the NVMe Drive

But I Run with a 128 Buffer at 44.1 KHz I will try with higher Sample Rate in my next project but I need to finish the song I`m working on now

Got somme little glitch with the Power Management of the Firewire Card on startup and a strange video bug that I need to look into (Could be PT fault) but nothing Major and I never Crash and don`t remember any freaking PT Error in the last 3 weeks
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2018, 04:37 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

that's the other thing, the OP will need a proper TI chipset firewire pcie card with those new intel chipsets.. perhaps they have that already.. UA will say which ones work with apollo.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:39 PM
ejinbc ejinbc is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

OP

Here is how we achieved low latency recording in PT 2018.3 / Win 10 with a mix of VIs and 16 x 24/96 kHz audio channels. We monitor midi drums (TD6V, Abbey Road Modern Kit), various Kontakt Keys (2 players), acoustic guitar, and 4 x Vocals, live through PT during recording. We also use 6 HEQ and a HDelay (Waves). See below for system build details. With a MOTU 1248 (latest drivers and up-to-date Win 10) we can record without clicks or pops at 24/96 kHz with a 64 sample audio buffer and 32 sample output buffer (MOTU allows these to be set separately) for at least 3 hours continuous without issue.

A CPU affinity of FFE for 8700K processors when running at 64 or 32 sample buffer is necessary on my system – this frees up one core for background OS and audio processing on the CPU. This is required on my system to achieve click/pop free operation at low latency – otherwise I get random CPU spikes which will halt recording. At higher buffers (e.g. 256) it is not needed.

This can be achieved on Win 10 with the command line for my install:

cmd. exe /c start "ProTools" /affinity FFC "C:\Program Files\Avid\Pro Tools\Protools. exe"

(note remove space before exe to use this command line - spaces required to post in forum)

I use this by creating a shortcut to ProTools on the desktop and then pasting the new command line into the Target line in the icon properties.

I just built this 8700K system https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/6nmc3F - Core i7-8700K 3.7GHz 6-Core, GeForce GTX 950 2GB FTW ACX 2.0, Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower - PCPartPicker Canada

If you want low latency, the 8700K system is probably the way to go because of the faster single core performance.

I overclock to 5.0 GHz. Overclocking is trivial now (see YouTube e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoUtA7DKXhU) and completely stable on my system. Actually, I find overclocking gives better stability/performance for DAW work. I disable all clock and power switching in the BIOS. I setup a custom fan profile in the BIOS for quieter operation. Airflow is important for overclocking. With the Noctu cooler I reverse the normal case airflow to draw in from the back directly onto the Noctu Radiator, and exhaust out the front. This gets the coolest air over the Radiator for cooling. The CPU never goes above 70C when using ProTools on a busy project.

I am very happy with the 8700K. I had been using an overclocked 3770K (4.5 GHz) for several years waiting for a worthy upgrade. This was it. The single core performance allows me to run at 64 sample buffer 24/96 kHz for recording (16 audio, 16 midi, 6 instances of HEQ, 1 HDelay, 1 Kontakt running AR Modern Drums, 1 Kontakt running Pianos, and then other instances of Kontakt instruments as required), and the 6 cores allow me to run many more CPU intensive plugins during mixing. All good.

I did not delid my CPU; it should not be necessary for 5 GHz. Get the thermal paste right and make sure you have the coolest air possible moving over the radiators. I just used the asus overclock profile for 5 GHz on the Asus Z370 Prime A motherboard and adjusted the XMP for my memory. Once it was working, I lowered the CPU voltage from the overclock default until my system wasn't stable in a stress test then upped the CPU voltage back a few mV. Done stable and cool.

Also note, there is a big difference in CPU load (temperatures) between running a DAW with a busy project and running a Prime stress test. On a stress test the CPU temp cycles from 60 to 85 C, but with a full DAW load it only goes up to 70 C max.

Happy Camper, Hope this helps.

____________________________________________
Asus Prime A Z370 MB, 8770K CPU O/C @ 5 GHz, 32 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, 2 TB Data drive, Gigabyte 950 video card running HDMI 2.0 @ 4K resolution, all USB peripherals plugged into USB3 ports EXCEPT Motu 1248 which is plugged into rear USB2 port, Turbo Mode Off in BIOS, C-states Off in BIOS, On-board sound Off in BIOS, HPET Off in BIOS. Command 8, Roland TD6, Edirol PCR M80, Korg SP250. Windows 10 (all standard DAW optimizations), Pro Tools 2018.3, Waves Gold Bundle, Waves HEQ, Native Instruments Komplete 10.
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2018, 09:11 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

I wish there was a way we could disable one processor just for pro tools in OSX, rather than a system wide disable via xcode..

It would probably fix all the spike issue in OSX as well..

Really great post ejinbc, thank you.

Can I ask you something? When you use the processor affinity solution in windows, and arm a VI at 64 buffer, (not xpand or something light but a proper VI like kontakt, something that uses some juice is what i mean), does only one core increase more than the others, or do all 12 (or 11 in your case) logical cores show usage just even for one VI?

If the core affinity fixes that too, that would be amazing. I wonder how well it would work for the 20 logical core processors like 7900X...
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:17 PM
spock999 spock999 is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

Just did a quick test at 96KHz with a 128 Buffers with a Full template a lot of Heavy Plugin like H-Delay, H-Reverb, Superior Drummer 3 and over 12 simultaneous Rec tracks

Some strange about CPU Usage what PT report and What Windows
See Pic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CPU Usage.jpg (91.1 KB, 0 views)
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:47 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spock999 View Post
Just did a quick test at 96KHz with a 128 Buffers with a Full template a lot of Heavy Plugin like H-Delay, H-Reverb, Superior Drummer 3 and over 12 simultaneous Rec tracks

Some strange about CPU Usage what PT report and What Windows
See Pic.
128 buffer is never a problem for any modern i7 cpu
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  #17  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:49 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

ahh sorry, you are at 96K.. if you don't want spiking and you want the cpu to match more closely to the real cpu usage, you have to be at 256 buffer.


128 buffer is the one for 44/48K

at 128 buffer i get pro tools to show all cores being evenly used, and mac activity monitor to show 90% real cpu usage on each core. Pro Tools' meter more or less matches real cpu usage perfectly.

At 64 buffer it's just all over the place with spiking, for example, real cpu might be 5% and pro tools shows 90% on every core lol!

)That's the low buffer issue I have been talking about for months with PT 12).

32 buffer is even worse. Way worse.
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Last edited by TNM; 03-14-2018 at 12:09 AM. Reason: minor adjustments and spelling
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  #18  
Old 03-14-2018, 02:11 AM
chrismeraz chrismeraz is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
here you go

https://uadforum.com/apollo-arrow-in...-question.html

apollo firewire is 8ms at *32* sample buffer at 44/48k and 4ms at *32* buffer 96k through the DAW.

64 samples is higher again

Even UAD admit at that very forum that their interface is designed to use console and uad plugins and not a good choice for those wanting to monitor through the DAW.

The thunderbolt one changed things dramatically and it's usable monitoring through the daw at 32 or 64 samples.

Adding a thunderbolt card to your apollo firewire won't change anything as the audio interface part still uses firewire.
Thanks TNM (if that is your real name)!

I tried monitoring through PT at 24/96 and 64 samples with one track on my current rig. It worked well (but I will get dropouts if I use a lot of tracks) and latency was unnoticeable for me. Latency at 128 was noticeable, and 256 was downright unpleasant.

Thanks for sharing those numbers! Now that you tell me I was actually listening to about 4ms of latency at 64 samples, and not 1.7ms, it makes more sense. I think a commonly accepted limit for latency during tracking is 5ms.

I want to have Thunderbolt in case I change my interface later on.

My current FireWire card is one of the two that are approved by UAD, as far as I know those haven't changed.

Sounds to me like I should go for the 8700K. I'll do some more testing tonight just to see if I don't find any other problems - I'll see how many tracks I can record simultaneously at 24/96/64.

You guys are amazing, I definitely came to the right place!
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2018, 02:51 AM
chrismeraz chrismeraz is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejinbc View Post
op

here is how we achieved low latency recording in pt 2018.3 / win 10 with a mix of vis and 16 x 24/96 khz audio channels.
thanks!!
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  #20  
Old 03-14-2018, 02:58 PM
digiot digiot is offline
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Default Re: Is the i7 8700K processor good enough for PT Native?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post
thanks!!
I don't think the problem is the processor or the Thunderbolt bus. the Problem is the crappy UAD Thunderbolt drivers. As stated here before Apollo's are really only meant to be used with their own Console and Plug-ins. If you want to use Protools to monitor and record you need to find an interface with better drivers.
If you have PCIe slots in your PC build you can get RME or Lynx cards that handle super low buffers and low latency. If you stick with thunderbolt you can use the RME UFX+ or the Lynx Aurora-LT interfaces with solid written drivers supporting low buffer settings.
Apparently the Presonus Quantum interfaces are good too but I can't confirm since I have not tried those yet.
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