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  #41  
Old 12-10-2014, 07:41 AM
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DonaldM DonaldM is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

Here's another little twist I discovered last night. I probably knew this already, but overlooked it. Anyway, I had set my 8i6 as default input/output for my PC because I was playing back some other stuff not with PT. Later, I went to work on a PT session and because my prior session from the day before was 44.1k, I had to go through the sample rate change sequence I described in my earlier thread using the 48k dummy session. All of sudden, things got hung up and I got an error message telling me that PT couldn't make the sample rate change until it was NOT set as default input/output for my PC. Once I changed that, it all went fine. But it did require a reboot of Pro Tools to pull off.

Just one more thing to keep in mind if you run into problems switching sample rates...because we don't have enough to remember now!!!
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  #42  
Old 12-10-2014, 09:10 AM
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hjorte hjorte is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

Donald, did Focusrite ever confirm these issues? The last I saw was one of their supporters in your thread saying: It works fine here when changing from 44 to 88. No problem. (end of post).
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  #43  
Old 12-12-2014, 09:40 PM
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DonaldM DonaldM is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

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Originally Posted by hjorte View Post
Donald, did Focusrite ever confirm these issues? The last I saw was one of their supporters in your thread saying: It works fine here when changing from 44 to 88. No problem. (end of post).
Yes, I've had 2 separate emails from Focusrite in which they said they were able to recreate the problem. So far, though, I haven't seen anything in the direction of a solution. Everyone seems to think its the other guy's problem.

But, I have gotten pretty quick at using the little work around with the dummy sessions...,as long as I remember to do ALL the steps in the RIGHT order!

One thing I wish we could do, but can't (at least not in windows) is use Windows explorer to look at the session file and have the sample rate show in the properties. I've looked quite a bit, but there doesn't seem to be any software that will do it either. It'd be helpful as I don't always remember what sample rate some of my older sessions were in. I've started re-saving them with the sample rate in the name, like "Cool Session 44-1k" or "Dippy Session 48k"
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  #44  
Old 12-13-2014, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

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Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
One thing I wish we could do, but can't (at least not in windows) is use Windows explorer to look at the session file and have the sample rate show in the properties.
Maybe a catch22 here, but you can use PT's Workspace to browse your files and get pretty much every property listed including sample rate.
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  #45  
Old 12-13-2014, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

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Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
Yes, I've had 2 separate emails from Focusrite in which they said they were able to recreate the problem. So far, though, I haven't seen anything in the direction of a solution. Everyone seems to think its the other guy's problem.
Have you told them that RME works fine?
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2014, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

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Have you told them that RME works fine?
No...I'll let YOU do that!!!
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2014, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

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No...I'll let YOU do that!!!
I already told MY manufacturer (Audient).
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2014, 02:00 PM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

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Originally Posted by kdarbyshirebryant View Post
It is instructive to read some notes that TC Electronic put up on their audio drivers beta forum regarding Pro Tools ASIO behaviour:

"Pro Tools' ASIO host implementation is still fairly new and has several issues. The biggest one is that it requires a complete restart of Pro Tools whenever our ASIO driver sends it a ASIO reset message. This results in the dreaded "ASIO device properties have been changed by the device control panel. Pro Tools must be restarted for these changes to take affect..." dialog which it displays. Merging Technologies' Pyramix is another DAW that requires it to rebuild its entire mixer topology when it receives a ASIO reset message. Other ASIO hosts deal with this message properly.

We have to send a ASIO reset message to the ASIO host whenever we have to restart our streaming engine (triggered by a change: sample rate, buffer size, safe mode, clock source, device attach/removal, etc.) in case the configuration has changed. If the device(s)' channel count changes (one reason due to ADAT channels halving at higher sample rates), the ASIO host must query our ASIO driver in this situation to stay in sync. We've found that even when we remove the kAsioResetRequest message, Pro Tools still doesn't always follow the ASIO spec. Sometimes it attempts to change the sample rate while streaming is active; in some cases it doesn't fully query us to detect changes to the channel configuration.

As a workaround for the buffer switch issue, our ASIO driver detects whether the ASIO host is Pro Tools and if so it does not allow Pro Tools to change the buffer size -- it only reports the current buffer size to Pro Tools. We only lock the buffer size for Pro Tools so that other better behaving ASIO hosts will retain the ability. As a point of comparison, the RME and MOTU drivers always lock the buffer size for all ASIO hosts; it must be changed in their Control Panel application. With this change Pro Tools will now open projects and instead of attempting to restore the project's buffer size it will just accept the current buffer size, whereas before changes would result in the restart dialog.


Another confusing aspect to Pro Tools' ASIO implementation -- when Pro Tools is launched it ignores what sample rate the driver is currently set to and instead its audio engine first restores the sample rate to the sample rate that Pro Tools was using previously. This results in situations where it requires launching Pro Tools twice in order to switch to a new sample rate.

We would also sometimes see the situation where PT9 plays and the meters are active but there is no audio. We also saw this when testing with both RME and MOTU devices.

We'll do further testing with the latest Pro Tools release (looks like 10.3.2 is the latest update; our last testing was with 9.0.5 and 10.2.0) and analyze the ASIO interaction to see if they've made any changes or improvements."


I absolutely concur with their observations on behaviour. Switching sample rates for me is an absolute pain in the backside, often involving reboots & swearing. Other hosts just get on with it. Unfortunately, despite a few attempts to prod TC into action with regard to PT 11 they've not updated the thread to state if any changes have been investigated.
+1 on this...there is a lot of good information in those notes...
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

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  #49  
Old 12-15-2014, 02:18 PM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

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Originally Posted by mesaone View Post
If that's the case, then yes it should be fixed. But if it is indeed an Avid issue, I would wonder why my RME cards have been able to sneak past whatever the issue is, to operate without any major problems (aside from the lack of 192 kHz playback, which frankly I have neither the time nor the desire to investigate)
Not at all complicated...pseudo code would look like...

If command = "A" or command = "B" Then

Call ProcessCommand("A")

End If

In the other direction it would be...

Dim DeviceName As String = GetDeviceName()

If DeviceName = "X" Then Call ProcessCommand("A")

If DeviceName = "Y" Then Call ProcessCommand("B")

We do this kind of stuff all the time, albeit in a somewhat more "elegant" fashion to make maintenance easier...
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
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  #50  
Old 01-10-2015, 09:28 PM
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hjorte hjorte is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

Soooo, here we go. It looks like we can add Pro Tools | Duet to the list. The BLACKLIST that is.
Can't select Sample Rate
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