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  #21  
Old 05-21-2015, 11:25 AM
Amack Amack is offline
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mesaone,

Sharing useful information like this would be much easier if Pro Tools supported “Alt + Print Screen” like other Windows (and Mac?) applications and allowed larger jpg attachments. Any chance that you would/could use your influence to try to make that happen?

Also, it’s quite clear to me that “System Delay” is somehow related to the latency compensation that Pro Tools uses in recording sessions as well as when audio is imported into new sessions. It's also clear that, despite what the manual says(?), hardware delay is also (sometimes?) compensated without HD hardware/software. (Note that "System Delay" in my attached example shows 0 only because no track has been assigned to an output in the session.)

My "Attached Files" shows "0 views" for this attachment. Does that mean that no one can/has seen it?

Would/could you use your influence to try to get an explanation of what “System Delay really is? Or, better yet, have PT show the input and output buffer sizes and latencies provided by the audio devices’ (“interfaces’”) drivers like other DAWs do?

Pretty Please?
Amack


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftStudios View Post
Okay link below for photos showing details of session. Hope it answers everyones questions. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3o63d2xuz...KZ5gaWona?dl=0

Cheers!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ASIO4ALL 96kHz.pdf (214.4 KB, 0 views)

Last edited by Amack; 05-25-2015 at 04:59 PM. Reason: To fix when "System Delay" gets initialized and Attachment view question
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2015, 11:40 AM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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Amack, for screenshots check out a free utility called 7Capture. http://www.7capture.com/

I don't know what influence you think I have, but you can make your own suggestions on Ideascale. System Delay is exactly how it is described in the manual. For non-HD interfaces, this is a measure of internal delay only.

Shiftstudios, I'm interested in what you think of the general functionality of the MOTU AVB stuff. Decent preamps, headphone amps, routing?
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  #23  
Old 05-21-2015, 01:16 PM
Amack Amack is offline
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Mesaone,

What can Shift Studios can do about reducing that 18.45 ms of "internal delay"?

Unlike Shift Studios, I've always used the "Dynamic Plug-in Processing" option for the Playback Engine. Which option do you recommend and/or use?

Amack

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesaone View Post
Amack, for screenshots check out a free utility called 7Capture. http://www.7capture.com/

I don't know what influence you think I have, but you can make your own suggestions on Ideascale. System Delay is exactly how it is described in the manual. For non-HD interfaces, this is a measure of internal delay only.

Shiftstudios, I'm interested in what you think of the general functionality of the MOTU AVB stuff. Decent preamps, headphone amps, routing?
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  #24  
Old 05-21-2015, 02:00 PM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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I didn't get the impression that he was experiencing an issue with delay compensation. If you are, you might be interested in starting a new thread. There's no reason to hijack unrelated threads with the same questions that have been answered for you repeatedly..
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2015, 02:16 PM
Amack Amack is offline
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Sorry - only trying to help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesaone View Post
I didn't get the impression that he was experiencing an issue with delay compensation. If you are, you might be interested in starting a new thread. There's no reason to hijack unrelated threads with the same questions that have been answered for you repeatedly..
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  #26  
Old 05-21-2015, 03:29 PM
ShiftStudios ShiftStudios is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesaone View Post
Amack, for screenshots check out a free utility called 7Capture. http://www.7capture.com/

I don't know what influence you think I have, but you can make your own suggestions on Ideascale. System Delay is exactly how it is described in the manual. For non-HD interfaces, this is a measure of internal delay only.

Shiftstudios, I'm interested in what you think of the general functionality of the MOTU AVB stuff. Decent preamps, headphone amps, routing?
Hi mesaone!

My impressions so far are limited as I have only had the device just shy of a week (even though I've been on it every day for hours since). So all I can give are my impressions so far. :)

Preamps on this device are better than any of the other interface gear I have (I use a lot of Focusrite gear). The noise floor is amazingly low, inaudible even. Dynamic range is much improved, and the clarity and separation is great! Many have said the stats are pretty close to the Apogee Symphony I/O, I am trying to find specific links to send you in relation to that as I have not used the Symphony so I cannot be the judge of that. All I know is to my ears, it sounds more open, more clear, and the frequency range is much improved over my other interfaces (even the MOTU 828x). In this new AVB line they are using Sabre32 digital converters (same as the apogee gear), rather than whatever cheap stuff they were using in their previous lines.

Also, I did not notice any perceivable difference between audio streams through AVB vs Thunderbolt.

For headphone amps I got the 16A which does not have headphone outs on it, but I have an ART HeadAmp 6 so I generally do some TRS out's to the headphone amp and then from there I can out to wherever I need to as well so it works good. Based upon this I cannot comment on their headphone amps (I have looked at the Monitor8 a few times).

In terms of routing I will say this. The ability to route any input to any output(s) with zero latency is phenomenal on this device, not to mention it also has onboard DSP for all inputs and outputs (LA-2A style comp, british style EQ, and HPF, Reverb, etc.). Which I was first skeptical that having a web based interface for this would be gimmicky, I am happy to report that I was proven wrong. Being able to use my iPad for routing and mixing on the interface while keeping Pro Tools up on my monitors have proven invaluable for setting up headphone mixes, live tracking, etc). I have only scratched the surface of what I can do with this thing, but so far I am extremely impressed.

I will say for a device at this price point, I feel it definitely punches above it's weight.

When I find some links of technical real-world comparisons, I will post them here. :)
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  #27  
Old 05-21-2015, 03:51 PM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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Thanks, that's helpful. It seems you're right about punching above it's weight. In the case of AVB we're talking about increased returns with increased channel count, not only monetary but also in terms of latency and scale. I'm definitely keeping my eye on this MOTU stuff. On-board DSP is always a plus, as well.
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  #28  
Old 05-24-2015, 02:32 PM
Amack Amack is offline
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OOPs I screwed up again! - I missed what was said in Post #6 about all the added plugins (which could account for most of that system delay). If he had recorded without any plugins and with "Minimize Additional I/O Latency" selected, he would probably have had only 16 samples of "System Delay".

With my system (standard PT 12 with Windows 8.1), PT's "System Delay" = ASIO Interface's "Output Latency" - it's (and PTs) "Buffer Size". It shows up under "Session Setup" when an audio track is assigned to an output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesaone View Post
I didn't get the impression that he was experiencing an issue with delay compensation. If you are, you might be interested in starting a new thread. There's no reason to hijack unrelated threads with the same questions that have been answered for you repeatedly..
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2015, 05:33 PM
Amack Amack is offline
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Shift Studios,

My take away from this is that your interface's latency is limited by PT's 64 sample buffer size minimum at a 96k samples/second. Since Logic Pro X apparently supports 32 sample buffers at that rate, have you tried it (or any other DAW) too?

Also please note that I have edited my earlier post ( http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2263037&postcount=2) to reflect what I have recently learned. Could you please answer the question there regarding viewing its attachment?

V.R.
Amack

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftStudios View Post
Hi propower,

You are right, it was 64, so apologies for that, the latency time is still correct though. :) As I told Amack in my last post, the test I ran last night proved a perceivable improvement to me. :)

Cheers!

Last edited by Amack; 05-26-2015 at 09:08 AM. Reason: fix grammar
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2015, 06:45 PM
Amack Amack is offline
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Default Re: Motu 16a

ShiftStudios,

Here's a simple procedure to measure DAW system audio Round Trip Latency (RTL), DAW RTL compensation error, and audio interface Direct Monitoring Latency (DML) http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=368814. Although some (like guitardom and mesaone) may still disagree, I believe that propower, who apparently has a much better understanding of the issue, considers it to be effective (http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2267009&postcount=67).

Please let me know if you have any questions about the procedure or the posted results. I and likely many others would be interested in seeing your test results - especially in light of this post (which I no longer have “access” to) which suggests RTL latency compensation errors now occur with “HD native cards” (http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2269524&postcount=85).

Thanks!

Amack

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftStudios View Post
Hi Amack,

Not the most accurate method, but I use the Logic Pro X audio interface settings panel. Probably not 100% accurate. But I have always used that for my round trip reading for all my interfaces because at least it's consistent. :)

If I record x tracks without pops and crackling, I consider it a pass, and I then use the setting readouts. Whether or not it's 100% accurate does not change the fact that this interface, through AVB, is measurably better than firewire interfaces.

I'd be happy to use whatever methods you guys use to provide some useful measurements. I'm extremely excited these AVB interfaces and their possibilities. The fact alone that I can get 128 channels in and 128 channels out simultaneously with AVB or thunderbolt, is amazing!

Just wanted to share my experiences. Happy to do some examples for people. :)
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