New Licensing

[CME]

Oh and after I sent that I realized something. If they do go with this plan, it contradicts one of their biggest reasons for discontinuing the CPTK. Which was that by getting rid of it, it would simplify the code and make pro tools more reliable. So having all kinds of add-ons wont affect reliability?

Anyways the other thought is, with this plan they won't have to sell HD licenses. They can simply sell the vanilla license with HD feature upgrade. It'll also keep them from having to put a price on HD. But I guess that's moot anyways. It'll be $599 for a year.

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by CME

with this plan they won't have to sell HD licenses. They can simply sell the vanilla license with HD feature upgrade. It'll also keep them from having to put a price on HD. But I guess that's moot anyways. It'll be $599 for a year.

Wonder what that will do to hardware prices

[Jay_uk]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

Axiom air.. You weren't specific

I'm using the Axiom pro 61..

But your on PC (not Mac) ...You weren't specific
He He

[Mattiasnyc]

Originally Posted by JCBigler

Point taken. Does Nuendo have VCA groups?

VCAs and surround are the two main reasons that I would upgrade to HD|Native, and the more than 32 simultaneous track limitations.

Nuendo does not have VCA. It's been said to be in the works for some time now. Hopefully it'll be included in the next release, then again, that's what many said about the previous one.

You get a bunch of tracks so there's no need to worry about that (though contrary to HDX' guaranteed track count it'll depend on your host computer of course).

Surround works fine though I think there may be the odd difference between it and PT. In some ways it's probably better (includes Iosono Anymix Pro for example), and in some ways worse (I seem to recall a difference in inserting plugins into a surround channel but only one of them, i.e. into 'center' only in a 5.1, or something like that).

Steinberg's problem is that it has some fantastic new features that post and music engineers alike will love yet it has fallen hopelessly behind on some other features such as VCAs and groups (!). It just got 'playlists' for example.

On the other hand it has a stellar ADR functionality built in (PT has none) and has an integrated media management system (i.e. no "need" for SoundMiner), plus had for years like 7 out of 10 of the things Avid marketed as revolutionary new features for version 10/11.

It's well worth checking out, but not to commit without doing so of course.

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by CME

Oh and after I sent that I realized something. If they do go with this plan, it contradicts one of their biggest reasons for discontinuing the CPTK. Which was that by getting rid of it, it would simplify the code and make pro tools more reliable. So having all kinds of add-ons wont affect reliability?

Anyways the other thought is, with this plan they won't have to sell HD licenses. They can simply sell the vanilla license with HD feature upgrade. It'll also keep them from having to put a price on HD. But I guess that's moot anyways. It'll be $599 for a year.

Good points. I'm not sure anyone seriously believed the "simplify the code" excuse re CPTK of course. I think regular PT is exactly the same as CPTK is exactly the same as HD, with the different licenses unlocking different parts of it, so technically I'd imagine there's no real barrier there to a more piecemeal plan. It just makes a further mockery of that original bluster.

As you say, the real problem comes with the marketing and finance. Those of us CPTKers forced to upgrade to HD never wanted to be on HD in the first place. It's always felt an inappropriate label for software-only users. If they'd kept CPTK and had CPTK support at $399 the howls of anguish would have been slightly reduced perhaps, but that option is now firmly closed with seemingly no way to bring it back. Maybe they can offer 4 different HD-feature subsets at $100 worth of support each?

No, I'm not convinced either. I suspect that Avid haven't thought any of this through. Fancy that.

[nigelpry]

Before anyone gets too excited about the prospect of in-app purchasing/rental of just the HD features they want, they'd do well to consider this .... what Avid giveth, Avid can also, at its absolute discretion, taketh away.

Many of us have spoken about CPTK in this thread .... and its a very relevant demonstration of Avid's attitude towards its clients.

To sell us a product (CPTK) on the basis of it being a Pro Tools version independent HD feature unlocker for up to $2000 only to decide, without warning, that the 64bit migration to PT11 was the ideal opportunity to disable it going forward, was callous enough, especially as the only way to keep those HD features going forward was to upgrade to a full HD licence, with all that entails cost wise into the future.

To suggest, only one PT version later, the introduction of what would be, in effect, just a more pick and mix version of the very same thing, when performance and reliability was cited as the principal reason for ditching CPTK in he first place, is pretty outrageous.

Perhaps most importantly, a whole new cohort of vanilla PT users will be tempted into spending money to get those features. How will those users feel in a couple of years time, if Avid repeats that sequence of events?

Beware, you might think you're getting some HD functionality on the cheap. But once you fully integrate those features into your working practices, you'll come to rely on them. The rug could then just as easily be pulled from under you, with those in-app rentals/purchases suspended and upgrade to HD the only way to keep up.

And so the cycle can begin again, with more vanilla users ready to be suckered into the scam.

[CME]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

Before anyone gets too excited about the prospect of in-app purchasing/rental of just the HD features they want, they'd do well to consider this .... what Avid giveth, Avid can also, at its absolute discretion, taketh away.



Many of us have spoken about CPTK in this thread .... and its a very relevant demonstration of Avid's attitude towards its clients.



To sell us a product (CPTK) on the basis of it being a Pro Tools version independent HD feature unlocker for up to $2000 only to decide, without warning, that the 64bit migration to PT11 was the ideal opportunity to disable it going forward, was callous enough, especially as the only way to keep those HD features going forward was to upgrade to a full HD licence, with all that entails cost wise into the future.



To suggest, only one PT version later, the introduction of what would be, in effect, just a more pick and mix version of the very same thing, when performance and reliability was cited as the principal reason for ditching CPTK in he first place, is pretty outrageous.



Perhaps most importantly, a whole new cohort of vanilla PT users will be tempted into spending money to get those features. How will those users feel in a couple of years time, if Avid repeats that sequence of events?



Beware, you might think you're getting some HD functionality on the cheap. But once you fully integrate those features into your working practices, you'll come to rely on them. The rug could then just as easily be pulled from under you, with those in-app rentals/purchases suspended and upgrade to HD the only way to keep up.



And so the cycle can begin again, with more vanilla users ready to be suckered into the scam.

Yeah I had the cptk, but chose to go down the "vanilla" path and sell off my CPTK license. And I always assumed their reasoning of stability to be utter BS.

But one reason makes sense now. Had they allowed any of the toolkits to remain the couldn't do the a la carte subscription, at least they couldn't and make money off us using the extra features. They also realized "how good of a deal" the CPTK was. Once you bought it you could upgrade for the "vanilla" price and have most of the HD features. Solution. Drop all the toolkits for a while. Then after transitioning pro tools to a time-based subscription licenses, bring in time-based add-on licenses. It really makes perfect sense from their side. However it just infuriates me.

*all previous comments by CME are merely speculation. But who wants to bet I'm wrong?

[r2ur0]

At one time I had a steady income from audio. It was tied to the education budget. With the collapse of the economy and subsequent cuts to edu budgets I stopped getting paid. I now am making music for libraries. Ugh.
When pt11 came out I could not believe the $$ avid wanted for it.
I switched to Logic because the musical side of my partnership chose to go that way. I had spent years and many $$ learning pt. I was and still am very fluent in the pt workflow. But for the last 3 years I have been using Logic.
And I can say that as a pt believer it's not that bad. It took a bit of learning but I am there. Customizable key commands make the switch easier.
Since the jack in the upgrade price to 11 and this new silliness I am happy in my choice not to give avid any more of my money. I thought digi had made a great decision releasing the digi001 digi002 et al. Then avid bought digi.
Has any good come from that from an end user standpoint? Ever!
Uh, no.
I see many people here upset that avid are once again hanging the HD folks out to dry. It shouldn't surprise you. You are the suckers they can depend on. The ones who have spent sooooo much money with them that you can't imagine a world with out them. Well, enjoy your prison. Your guards will never thank you.
Nor will they treat you with the respect you deserve. I understand that some can never move out from under the avid boot on your neck. But I am happy now that I did. I love working with pt. But avid is awful. Good luck y'all!

[ronwasserman]

Originally Posted by CygnusX-1Bk2

ProTools is the only DAW that really handles working to picture well for SFX/Post. I haven't tried in Reaper but Cubase and Logic are clunky. I worked with a guy who used Nuendo, but it's pretty much Cubase HD (for a PT example). DP was miserable for me when I tried to learn it several years ago. I've done a good but of music creation in Logic with loops and VI but PT is where I move quickest and efficiently for work with picture. I still have 2 blue iLoks with HD 7 & 8 licenses and my old G5 with my HD 3 cards still working. It's my last resort machine. If I have to freeze my current HDN machine in version 11 I will.

If I were only doing music then Logic would be my choice for an alternative. But I have way too much invested in PT; time and experience as well as money.

Nail on the head. As for freeze.....that'll be nice but bussing and bouncing works pretty damn fast for my needs now.

[ronwasserman]

Originally Posted by musicman691

And what's to say Avid won't do, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, go into your iLok account and change your now permanent PT license to a time limited subscription asset? So the next time you go to sync your iLok or download a new license asset for some plugin you then become a monthly (or whatever term of time) subscriber to PT? Makes one think about having two iLoks - one for PT and another one for everything else. That way you only have the non-PT one plugged in when doing any online licenese work.

Q. Will my new Pro Tools license expire at the end of the one-year support period?
A. No, you own the software and can continue to use your Pro Tools license with your software. However, if you want to continue receiving updates/upgrades, you will need to renew your support plan for $199 (Pro Tools) or $599 (Pro Tools | HD) a year. Pro Tools upgrades will no longer be offered outside of a support plan.