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  #51  
Old 09-09-2018, 04:54 AM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

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Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Great thank you very much!

Now I just have to find out how to make this work for their Atmos Home specs ;-)

In the past I think you were supposed to measure the 5.1/7.1 re-render but that seems to have disappeared. Now they say the "Atmos mix" needs to comply to -27. So do we measure the 7.1.4 main bed re-render now? hm...
So now we measure the LFe? You´re not suppose to, under R128 AFAIK.
And -27 for dialogue is too low in my opinion, given the hearing environments nowadays.

I think that Netflix and others should be ruled by whatever spec is law enforced on the part of the globe they´re streaming too. If the broadcasters can be loudness compliant even with the huge legacy material they have on archives, why can´t the streaming companies be asked to respect the law? I mean, not their law...

It seems the goals of loudness standards are going down the drain. You´re watching linear TV, streaming movies or shows, watching YT videos all in the same smart TV, tablet, phone whatever, so it would be great to have loudness standardisation, but it doesn´t seem to going anywhere.

I´m curious what the DPP in the UK, has to say on this - 27 spec.

And I don´t get this Atmos for home either, most people don´t even have a decent 5.1 at home, are listening on headphones or in media hyped Dolby Atmos soundbars. Really? Immersive sound from a box under your TV? Gimme a break. With due respect to Dolby for their work in sound tech over the years, it seems that the monopoly is back again both at cinemas, in re-recording rooms and at home. And of course, you gonna have to open your wallet, be it for plugins, awkward hardware renders (that PC with the 10 year old MADI RME cards really makes me laugh...) room spec approvals (paid of course), the list goes on...

With all so many specs, I sometimes feel that the joy of working in sound is slowly vanishing. After all, we´re not robots, yet...
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  #52  
Old 09-09-2018, 11:06 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

Hi guys,

so the official word I got is that if you use VisLM the preset is

"Dialog LKFS" (not the "Dialog LKFS LM100 10s window" one)

and the reason for "1770-1 dialog-gated" is because a lot of people in their eco system have and use the DMM or LM100 and it's the only way the DMM can measure dialog gated.

So I can confirm what "its2loud" wrote earlier in this thread.

F.
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Last edited by Frank Kruse; 09-09-2018 at 12:09 PM.
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  #53  
Old 09-10-2018, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

A client jsut told me you could also use WLM with the "ATSC A85 DIALOG"-preset.
Anyone else heard of that?
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  #54  
Old 09-10-2018, 01:52 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Hi guys,

so the official word I got is that if you use VisLM the preset is

"Dialog LKFS" (not the "Dialog LKFS LM100 10s window" one)

and the reason for "1770-1 dialog-gated" is because a lot of people in their eco system have and use the DMM or LM100 and it's the only way the DMM can measure dialog gated.

So I can confirm what "its2loud" wrote earlier in this thread.

F.
Didn't Dolby discontinue DMM? Not to mention how old the LM100 is. I'm not crazy about going back to a different spec but this reasoning for it based on outdated gear seems.... odd.
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  #55  
Old 09-10-2018, 01:56 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

I have found the WLM to be consistently off +-1dB when measuring and comparing to the DMM or Nugen. Therefore, I have learned to not trust it’s accuracy when it comes to measuring dialog LKFS. Others may have a different opinion. Who knows? You may use it and get past QC with the +-2dB allowance.
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  #56  
Old 09-10-2018, 02:11 PM
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TVPostSound TVPostSound is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

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Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
Didn't Dolby discontinue DMM? Not to mention how old the LM100 is. I'm not crazy about going back to a different spec but this reasoning for it based on outdated gear seems.... odd.
The DDM 2 still works, and most likely will still be good for a couple years.
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  #57  
Old 09-10-2018, 03:14 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

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Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
The DDM 2 still works, and most likely will still be good for a couple years.
True but they're not going to maintain it right? Maybe I misunderstood.

I'm not mixing anything for Netflix at the moment. I never liked mixing to a specified dialnorm but if there is a +-2dB tolerance I don't think I'd have an issue.

I just wonder if this is the right direction for the audience at home. Time will tell?
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  #58  
Old 09-12-2018, 02:23 PM
mbourque mbourque is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

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Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
True but they're not going to maintain it right? Maybe I misunderstood.

I'm not mixing anything for Netflix at the moment. I never liked mixing to a specified dialnorm but if there is a +-2dB tolerance I don't think I'd have an issue.

I just wonder if this is the right direction for the audience at home. Time will tell?
I read that the algorithm has been made public and free. Nugen has integrated it in their plugin, I guess it's a matter of time to see other developpers integrate it in other metering tools.
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  #59  
Old 09-16-2018, 09:41 PM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

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Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
I have found the WLM to be consistently off +-1dB when measuring and comparing to the DMM or Nugen. Therefore, I have learned to not trust it’s accuracy when it comes to measuring dialog LKFS. Others may have a different opinion. Who knows? You may use it and get past QC with the +-2dB allowance.


I found the same. The WLM is not accurate.
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  #60  
Old 09-16-2018, 09:55 PM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: New -27 LKFS Spec

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Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Now I just have to find out how to make this work for their Atmos Home specs ;-)



In the past I think you were supposed to measure the 5.1/7.1 re-render but that seems to have disappeared. Now they say the "Atmos mix" needs to comply to -27. So do we measure the 7.1.4 main bed re-render now? hm...

Netflix Atmos spec v1.8 said -24 LKFS and didn’t mention which deliverable stems to measure it with. They only said use the 7.1 rerender for peaks.

The new v1.9 Atmos spec also changes it to -27 LKFS and also finally specified that loudness and peaks should be measured via the 5.1 rerender.
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