What is happening Digi?!!!!

[simond]

What is happening Digi?

I have mailed my problem to you several times!!! (as user simond)
Both here on the list and to you support but no answer!

I had a problem with things I should not have any problem with according to your compatibility list when using Magma 13 slot chassi and d24 card.
But................it does not work properly!

I get a bus-error during cold start up when Digisystem INIT is loading.

I have been in contact with the Swedish representative several times and I have been calling your support and Magma.

Everyone has been very helpful and nice but no one seems to find any answer since this combination should work without any problem. And I also know there are other people who has almost the same combination that is working.

As I am a support guy myself and install systems like this now and then I am very aware of all the common problems that may occur but this is more tricky than that.

I have change everything. Computer, Software, Cards, Chassi cards and motherboard etc etc
and I don´t think that anyone can come up with something I haven´t tried yet.

There is one solution. Buy a mixcore card and replace the d24.....
But the mixcore card is several times as expensive as the d24!!!!
and if I new about this mailfunction from start I would have the money to buy at least one mixcore card for all the money I have lost on this problem.

My whole music project which is actually the chance of my life to some sucess in music is on the edge of disaster as cause of this!!!

If I were the boss at Digidesign I would say ....send the guy a new mixcore card!!!

But at the same time I know that this is the realworl...not the dreamworld.
The reality isn´t that simple.....I am ofcourse some simple lier who want to have a cheap mixcore card everyone will think.

Well, I can only hope that it will be someone that take this more serious.
Because I think it really is!

Simon Danielsson
Producer, songwriter
Sweden

phone +46 18 10 77 00
mobile +46 705 22 77 00
mail: [email protected]

[Techsupt2]

Hi Simond

I just need to go over a few things with your system so I can help you out. Some of the questions you might have already been asked or gone over so please bare with me and we'll get a solution to your problem.

The 13 slot Magma Chassis requires Rev H or higher DSP Farm cards (serial number FF09226 or higher) and Rev D or higher SampleCell II cards (serial number HH02001 or higher). How many and what type of cards are you using in the Magma chassis? What are their serial numbers?

The Magma 13-slot expansion chassis must have serial number PE01732 or greater.

You should also be up to Pro Tools v4.2 or higher with a DAE/DSI of at least v3.4.

What kind of CPU are you using or have tried? Are you using a processor upgrade card? If so what kind?

Do the d24 cards(one d24 card/one DSP farm) work in the CPU by themselves without the chassis?

What exact error message are you getting when prompted by the

Who have you been working with in Europe on this problem that works for Digidesign. Your dealer or someone else? Have you had your cards RA'ed?

Brad

[Will Gregory]

Hi simond,

i had the same problem with a Mix-System and a 13-Slot Magma. Did you replace the chassis host-card with a card form a working system? This solved my problems. Maybe you tried two broken host-cards (as i did). And don´t be fooled by a host-card that seems to work, but produces tons of 6042 and 9162 DAE-Errors. And don´t put any formac graphic-cards into the Magma-Chassis....

Good luck

Gregory

[simond]

Hi Brad!

Your questions 1 - 9 have my answers but have you seen my complete list of details in my two other letters with the same signature simond? The subject on the letter with a lot of info is: Magma 13 slot prob. please help!

Please have a look at that one to know more!

1. The 13 slot Magma Chassis requires Rev H or higher DSP Farm cards (serial number FF09226 or higher) and Rev D or higher
They are!

2. SampleCell II cards (serial number HH02001 or higher).
Yes!

3. How many and what type of cards are you using in the Magma chassis? What are their serial numbers?
I have this problem even with ONLY the d24 card in the chassi.
It is not happening when I tried with a borrowed Mixcore card!
So no other card is the problem...every card is up to date to fit in this chassi.
It is double checked!

4.The Magma 13-slot expansion chassis must have serial number PE01732 or greater.
It is PEO 2076!

5. You should also be up to Pro Tools v4.2 or higher with a DAE/DSI of at least v3.4.
I am.

6. What kind of CPU are you using or have tried?
G3 beige Tower 300 I have and I have also tried with a G3 beige 266 and PPC 9500.
Are you using a processor upgrade card?
No!

7. Do the d24 cards(one d24 card/one DSP farm) work in the CPU by themselves without the chassis?
Yes. No problem in what ever machine. Tower 300 or 9500 tested.

8. What exact error message are you getting?
During cold start up with the computer and chassi I get the message;

Sorry, a system error occured
"Digisystem™INIT"
bus error
To temporarily turn off extensions, restart and hold down the shift key.

9. Who have you been working with in Europe on this problem that works for Digidesign. Your dealer or someone else?
I have first been in contact with the store where I bought it and then the Swedish distributor FitzPatrick and then Digisupport US via phone.

>Have you had your cards RA'ed?
What is that?

Hope to hear from you soon!

/Simon

[simond]

Hi Gregory Will!

Thank you very much for your answer!

Before Magma sent me the replacement parts I insisted that they should try with a d24 card with a Mac before they ship to me and they did...and it worked...so I they are telling the truth which I of course believe it should not be a broken host card here.

But, maybe I am so very unlucky that something happened later with the hostcard?
I don´t know?
I always ground myself and all the parts and undress till I am almost naked before installing this important cards. So, I don´t think it has been broken during installation. But...maybe the powersupply is broken and don´t deliver the right current?
I don´t know, I don´t know...
Many thanks anyway!

Kind regards

Simon

[This message has been edited by simond (edited 11-10-99).]

[simond]

For safety and availability reason I post my updated complete explanation of the problem again!

Here comes the story!

Audio Cards: d24 Audio Card, Mixfarm, DSP-Farm and Samplecell (approved versions)
Audio Interfaces: ADAT Bridge Interface
Miscellaneous: Expansion Chassis Magma 13 slot (SNO 2076) with 4ft cable (2ft also tested)
Digidesign Hardware: d24 Audio Card (two different tested)
Software: ProTools and Logic Audio Platinum 4.04 (not used to show the problem)
Computer model and speed: Grey G3/300 Tower
Amount of RAM installed: 2 x 128
Operating System: 8.6en (8.1 - 8.5.1 also tried) DAE version: 3.4.2 (3.4.1- 3.4.2f for Waves 2.7 and earlier versions tried)
DSI version: 3.4.2 (3.4.1- 3.4.2f for Waves 2.7 and earlier versions tried)

Third party products used in this system:
Logic Audio Platinum (not used during test)
Amp Farm (not used during test but key on HD installed)
Autotune TDM PD (not used during test but key on HD installed)
Adaptec 2940W (not used during the stripped tests)

Description of problem:
On cold boot up with (both computer and Magma 13-slot chassi bought in may-99 Serial No 2076) and d24 card on any slot in the
chassi the system gets bus-error while loading the Digisystem INIT.
------------------
Sorry, a system error occured
"Digisystem™INIT"
bus error
To temporarily turn off extensions, restart and hold down the shift key.
-------------------

----------IMPORTANT NOTE---------

The problem occurs as soon as the d24 card is in the chassi!! Forget about all the other cards (they are all up to date with the right versions but they are not installed to demonstrate this problem)

This d24 card

REFURB D24
YR0431600G
990907168-00

and another card which I borrowed was the same....with this Beige G3 Tower 300 and PPC 9500 but both d24 cards worked perfectly in the computers PCI slot!!

Since the Mixcore card work perfectly in the Magma chassi it is not very easy to say that it is something wrong with the Magma chassi even if there are systems which run a d24 card in the Magma 13 slot chassi.
I replaced all the cards in the Magma chassi and the problem remains.
It is a new 13 slot chassi exept the powersupply and....maybe it is not delivering the right power??


After restart it works without any problem but it is very annoying to restart this often.
And something is wrong. The computer has the certified spec to work with the 13 slot chassi refering to both Magma and Digidesign.
When checking the product info in the Mac it also has the right version. The bridge chips in the chassi is of course right.

Actions required to reproduce the problem:
If I turn of both the computer and the Chassi and then turn on first the chassi and some seconds later the computer. If I turn on the
computer about one second after the chassi the bus-error message sometimes doesn´t appear. Very confusing?

Questions:

1. What is the difference between cold start up and warm start up?
When I have done the restart the Mac OS loads without the DigiINIT crash = bus error!
Why is that?

2. What is the DigiINIT exactly doing?
e.g Does it check the expansion chassi for cards and load them with parameters?

3. If DigiINIT load the cards with parameters during start up I assume that it not working the first time on cold start up but on the second time when restarting. But...is my system really running without problems then...after this start up, or is it some parameter which is not right on the d24 card?

4. The green, yellow and red lights on the cards! Is it of use to me to understand what they mean when trying to find the solution?

5. How can it be bus-error? What is this kind of bus-error?

6. Is there different versions of the d24 card?
7. If so..is a refurb. card an older version?
8. Why isn´t there a bus-error when I do "warm" restart?


Troubleshooting already attempted:
1. Reinstalling PT-software from CD after throwing away the pref files. Several times.
2. Changing the slot order in the computer. Magma hostcard in 1st, 2nd and 3rd didn´t make any difference.
T
3. In the Magma
chassi I finally isolated the problem to be the d24 card. As soon as I put that card in the fault
appeared.
4. Tried with another d24 card. Still the same.
5. Tried with a borrowed Magma 7 slot
chassi with d24 card in ..it worked fine..could use all the cards without any problem for one week with the G3 Tower/300 and MixFarm
card, DSP farm card and Samplecell II (Version OK). Then I had to return the 7 slot.
6. Tried to install older versions of DAE but still the same problem.
7. Tried different Mac OS - MacOS 8.1, 8.5.1 and 8.6
8. Tried to upgrade the SCSI acc adaptec card...but had to buy an old card again to
get the old PROM version again. So now it is 3 again I think.
9. Boy have I trashed preferences many times!! After every new try.
10. I changed motherboard in the computer.
11. I tried with a shorter cable between the chassi and computer.
12. I have changed the order of extensions - Digisystem INIT 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc and in the end
13. I have disabled all extensions exept Digisystem INIT
14. I have disconnected all external devises like harddrives, Logic key dongle, Adaptec SCSI acc etc
15. I have tried with a G3 266
16. I have tried with a 9500 - and it works when everything is in the 9500
17. Tried with a Mixcore card and the following set up worked perfectly fine.

Slot 1 - Interfacecard
Slot 2 - Mixcore
Slot 3 - Mixfarm
Slot 4 - DSP farm
Slot 5 - Samplecell

18. Tried with the d24 and DSP farm inside the G3/300 Tower computer and it worked fine.
19. I got spareparts from Magma so I replaced the parts in the chassi. Motherboard, interface card... same problem remain. (Note that the original powersupply is not replaced)
20. Here I hope to have some suggestions!
You may think I am crazy or have ghosts in the studio but...this is really true.

I would very much appreciate anybodys suggestions!!!

The one who first helps me to find a solution will receive a Christmas present , for sure!

Best regards
Simon Danielsson
SWEDEN

[This message has been edited by simond (edited 11-10-99).]

[This message has been edited by simond (edited 11-10-99).]

[simond]

Hi Beto!

Many thanks for your answer!

>I can appreciate the problem that you are going through. However, we have to try to isolate what is causing this problem. Working with what we know, the
>configuration is tested and supported, and it works. So this tells us that there is a particular >variant in your system that is causing this.

OK!

>If you tell us that you swapped d24 cards and the problem remained, but you swapped the Magma chassis and the problem was resolved, then this seems to say that
>the issue is with your Magma chassis. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to pass blame to a different company. I'm just trying to see what I can deduce from your
>information. I personally own two Magma chassis for my systems and they work great.

I see but how could it be that a Mixcore card works perfectly fine in my 13 slot chassi?
If I look on it that way it doesn´t seems to be a Magma 13 chassi issue.
It seems to be something with the d24 cards original specifications in conjunction with this set up.

And my problem remains now when I have swapped the motherboard and the host/interface cards in Magma 13?
Can it be the power supply which isn´t delivering the right current?
Is it the d24 card which needs 5 volts or is it the Mixcore card?`
I mean...if the powersupply doesn´t deliver volts enough to the d24 card it might misfunction.

I hope you understand my curiousity to dive a bit deeper here...and I would really appreciate to get as much technical specs as possible
A good thing would probably be to work as a DigiInit and Mac OS developer as I wonder so many things about how this complex system really can work at all!

Here are some questions which I have been trying to find aswers to in order to come closer to the solution.


1. What is the difference between cold start up and warm start up?
When I have done the restart the Mac OS loads without the DigiINIT crash = bus error!
Why is that?

2. What is the DigiINIT exactly doing?
e.g Does it check the expansion chassi for cards and load them with parameters?

3. If DigiINIT load the cards with parameters during start up I assume that it not working the first time on cold start up but on the second time when restarting. But...is my system really running without problems then...after this start up, or is it some parameter which is not right on the d24 card?

4. The green, yellow and red lights on the cards! Is it of use to me to understand what they mean when trying to find the solution?

5. How can it be bus-error? What is this kind of bus-error?


>The combination G3/300 Tower / PT 4.3.1 (DAE/DSI 3.4.2) / Magma 13 slot expanssion >chassis (Magma model PCI-13-RX-400V) is definetly fine. There is the
>issue of having to have digidesign cards that have the PCI Matchmaker chip being version "QC" >or "QE", but that is ONLY NECESSARY IF THE CHASSIS IS PCI
>2.1 COMPLIANT, i.e. if the chassis was PCI 2.0 compliant the QC/QE revisions on the >digidesign cards wouldn't even be necessary. All this to say that I believe
>you have everything configured correctly, and that there is some part on your chassis that >may be out of spec, or something of the sort.
Yes! It is what I have been thinking too.

>On our part, if you want we can arrange a Return Authorization for your d24 card, and have it swapped for another one. If the swapped card yields the same results,
this would assure you that it indeed seems to be the chassis.

OK!
That sounds very good as an opportunity, but do you mean that the other d24 card I tried with could be a bad version too, for my system?
Is there different d24 versions? Nobody has told me that.
On my white sticker from the d24 box I can read

REFURB D24
YR0431600G
990907168-00

And if you can see that this is a card that should work I think that the best for me would be to try and get hold of a new Magma 13 slot chassi to try with here in Sweden.
If that doesn´t work I could try and borrow another d24 card.
The funny thing is that the Mixcore card works without any problem!

Last of all, make sure the cable you are using (between the CPU and chassis) is either the 2 ft. or 4 ft. model, but NOT the 6 ft.

Before I ordered the Magma 13 slot I heard about this and I have the 4ft but I have also tried with the 2ft. It was the same with both. ANd both cables worked witout any problem on a Magma 7 slot chassis.

Many thanks again Beto!

I am really sorry that I have to bother you with this wierd problem but hopefully it brings something good in the end. I guess I am soon certified as a Digidesign prof. support guy!

/Simon




[This message has been edited by simond (edited 11-10-99).]

[Gairdog]

I have the same problem with digi init, however I don't get a bus error message... My machine just freezes on cold startup at digi sys init. I was kinda hoping that 5.0 might solve this as i am using a G4 (which is currently unsupported by digi)

My gear:

ABSOLUTLEY latest, brand spankin new:

Original G4 400 (non sawtooth)
pt 4.3.2
Mix plus (in mac)
ATTO dual ultra wide SCSI
Glyph Trip
4 ft cable

Magma 7 slot with:
Mix plus
Mix farm
vintage farm

Misc:
888 on mix card 1
Adat Bridge #1 A/B with y cable on mix card 2
ADAT Bridge #2 A on vintage farm

clock master is AArdsync II to Microlynx with ACG 2 card

I also have trouble with PT "unexpectedly quits"

YIKES!

[Huby SEA]

Hello.. Just my two pence:

My setup:
In my Magma 7 slot:
-1 D24 + 1 DSP Vintage, 1 Video (Matrox Millenium 2) .
In the Mac, a G3/300 Beige:
-The expansion-card (In the master PCI slot 0), an Apple (=ATTO modified SCSI card) in the PCI slot 1, and an AudiomediaIII in PCI slot 2.
I've had very strange behavior in the beginning, when I installed the AMIII in the Chassis (same symptons like Simon: hangs on Digi-INIT loadup, bus errors, etc).
I've changed to this card-order, and now it's stable as a rock...

That's why I would make just one sugestion to GAIRDOG:

GAIRDOG gets a "PT unexpectedly quits" by using this folowing setup:

"Original G4 400 (non sawtooth)
pt 4.3.2
Mix plus (in mac)
ATTO dual ultra wide SCSI
Glyph Trip
4 ft cable
Magma 7 slot with:
Mix plus
Mix farm
vintage farm
Misc:
888 on mix card 1
Adat Bridge #1 A/B with y cable on mix card 2
ADAT Bridge #2 A on vintage farm"

Please Digi correct me if I'm wrong:
I would sugest to put the 2 mixpluscards into the chassis,next to them the Mixfarm, then the Vintage farm, and in the Mac I would put whatever is left: the video, Expansion-card, Atto, and whatever... It seems to me that the expansion-card needs to be in a PCI Masterslot( wichever that one may be in a G4?)
Other sugestion for GAIRDOG: did you slow-down your ATTO-Card?. Steve "SCSI-GOD" Rosenthal from Digidesign said that one has to slow the ATTO-card down to "20(10)" (use the setup-app of your ATTO-card).

For Simon, I hope you get out of this trouble, I know how frustrating it can get if your mega-system doesn't works, but let me tell you if it works: IT ROCKS!!!
Last Q: Why don't you just settle for a 7-slot if this seems to work?


Courage!!

Huby

[simond]

Important message!

There ARE different versions of the d24 card!!!

Some of them does NOT work in together with a Magma 13 slot chasssi and the Beige G3 Tower 300!!

Look out for different Motorola chips used on the d24 card!

Just a few days ago I tried a card with a another Motorola ship version and it worked!!
I think it was revision B on the one that didn´t work, and C on this latest which worked!
(Digi - to know more specific please speak with the Swedish distributor GregFitzPatrick Import Group - Anders Olsson)

Unfortunately many different Digi staff has told me it should work and since July this year it has cost me a non-acceptable amount of trobleshooting, money and mood.

I am sorry to say that I feel fooled.
I have bought the "state of the art" music production system, configured with carefully celected compatible parts and software - according to Digi compability list and Digi staff.
And it didn´t work!!

I have respect for this very complex systems and are aware of that Digi can´t know every little combination of parts in all systems but this combination was known and on the list!!!
This issue is about a change in hardware which Digi havent´t informed about!!
I have asked Digi several times but the answer I got was "It should work!".

So, I was forced to keep on troubleshooting and to replace my whole set-up twice before I could finally try with a third d24 card.

This summer I was supposed to work with a music project which was the most important in my whole career.

What would YOU which that Digi would do for you to compensate, after going thru all this?!

How many hours of troubleshooting is acceptable before it shall work?
For me who already is a specialist in this kind of installations I think 100 hours is way to many!

It will be very interesting to see how Digi handles this case!

How high is the value of the end user?


/Simon Danielsson
[email protected]