11R Effects Loop Issue (HELP)

[lspaulsp]

No matter what I do my Eff Loop blows away my rack. I've tried both my ART effects and a Alesis reverb (borrowed) which work great with my Riveras loop and my Flex's Loop.

With the 11R, the effects input signal is maxed RED. I can turn down the inputs and the send return on the units and still BOOM. Set either rack or pedal in the back of the 11R. I can turn off the send return on the 11R, NOTHING changes.

Now the other thing that's killing me. The effects loop has this weird WHA EFFECT. Hit the guitar and WHOP WHOP it's like having a Q-Filter in the loop.

Help, Rick

[kittybite]

try choosing the options mono or stereo loop

[derker]

Have you tried just jumping the FX loop and connecting cables from the send to the return to see how the tone is affected? Set all the levels to default with the mix at 100% and see what happens.

[Darryl Ramm]

What ART box are you using? Specifically I'm interested if its a guitar input pedal or a line level FX box.

Make sure the level push switch on the back of he Eleven Rack is set correctly. The first control to look at is the send level of the Eleven Rack FX loop, (from Eleven Rack front panel or Pro Tools control window) play with gain staging that and any input level control in you FX box.

Digital FX boxes in the loop can exhibit beating/combing effects due to redigitizing the signal. See the note/warning in the ER manual about this. You might be able to change sample rates to avoid this.

On another level are you sure you need these external effects and can't do that with what is in the Eleven Rack now? (include looking at the Expansion Pack for adding things like Stereo Delay if you have not already).

If you still have problems describe what happens with one box in the loop, exactly the model box and how it is wired and what settigns for he FX loop and box you are using. Where is the loop in your rig chain and for debugging turn off all other fx in the rig.

[lspaulsp]

ART SGX T-2 running pedal lvl because it's looking for a guitar input. The effects and Alesis Reverb were run at rack lvl. Everything bypassed in the T-2. Wanted to use the exciter because it actually sounds great.

11R set for mono and hooked up mono. (Quadruple checked and reworked several times) Several different types of patch cables used also.

And, no I'm not stuck having to use the loop I have tons of other effects just wanted the exciter but that wha sound was driving me fricking NUTS. I'll pull everything and go straight here in a little bit. I've used the loop as a boost before. So much for rack effects.

I could run my guitar straight into the T-2 then the input of the 11 R just for s**ts and giggles. We'll wee what happens. Wow this is starting to get fun.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by lspaulsp

ART SGX T-2 running pedal lvl because it's looking for a guitar input. The effects and Alesis Reverb were run at rack lvl. Everything bypassed in the T-2. Wanted to use the exciter because it actually sounds great.

The ART SGX T-2 is a preamp at its core and should be able to drive a power amp/loop fx return on a real amp. So while its input may be instrument level its output may be a nice solid line level. So you need to be extra careful with the ART output level setting and the FX Loop send and return level/gain in the Eleven Rack. And yes I'd start with the Eleven Rack FX loop level button set to instrument to not hit the input of the ART too hard but you never know it might sound better at line level if you jigger all the different settings in the ART box and the Eleven Rack FX loop. Be prepared to experiment. Unfortunately or this scenario there are no separate buttons that let you the FX loop out/in to instrument/line level independently. That setting is always the same for the fx loop output and input.

11R set for mono and hooked up mono. (Quadruple checked and reworked several times) Several different types of patch cables used also.

And, no I'm not stuck having to use the loop I have tons of other effects just wanted the exciter but that wha sound was driving me fricking NUTS. I'll pull everything and go straight here in a little bit. I've used the loop as a boost before. So much for rack effects.

I could run my guitar straight into the T-2 then the input of the 11 R just for s**ts and giggles. We'll wee what happens. Wow this is starting to get fun.

With things as flexible as the ART style box and Eleven Rack used together you have the option of using the ART in front of the Eleven Rack, plugging the guitar into the ART and the ART TRS output into the Eleven Rack guitar in, or into a Line in input on the back of the Eleven Rack (I'd definitely try that, just remember to set the Eleven Rack guitar in to that line input and remember to set it back to the front panel guitar input when you are finished), or into the FX loop return or even putting the Eleven Rack in the ART's FX loop (for Eleven Rack fx not amp sims). Yes, endless hours of entertainment.

Darryl

[lspaulsp]

I'm gonna try it in front today.
I had it in the loop a couple of weeks ago and took it out of the rack. It wasn't pulsating then.
It's definitely the 11R because both ART's and the Alesis all had the same issues.
I'm running it mono at inst level. I tried rack level too, no change. May just have to flip for a used BBE.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by lspaulsp

I'm gonna try it in front today.
I had it in the loop a couple of weeks ago and took it out of the rack. It wasn't pulsating then.
It's definitely the 11R because both ART's and the Alesis all had the same issues.
I'm running it mono at inst level. I tried rack level too, no change. May just have to flip for a used BBE.

Or its definitely the user

Again I would be prepared to also try running the ART into one of the rear panel line-inputs and just see if that sounds better than the front panel guitar in.

Darryl

[lspaulsp]

Absolutely could be the user!

[dmock66]

Another thing to consider is what is in the signal chain of your rig. It could be that whatever is in front of the loop is creating a really hot signal.

A test you can try is to move the loop block up by the input and bypass anything between them, effectively having your guitar input the only thing hitting the loop. Scroll all the way to the right of your rig to the "Meters". Start with the Guitar Input and see what the meter reads. Scroll then to FX Snd and see what the meter reads. I did this and found that the FX Send was reading well hotter than the Guitar Input. I changed the FX Snd value to -4.9db and the FX Rtn to 4.9db with the loop level of 100%. After doing that I found I was getting a much better response from everything in my loop.

I had always thought the loop was "off" but couldn't put my finger on it. After reading your post and doing some thinking I tried the above test using the meters.

Although I've not taken it the second step, it would seem to me that if you have the amp output (on the second screen of the amp controls) high it could be that which is causing the loop stuff to clip - like the FX Snd control cannot bring down the level enough to keep from clipping. In theory, anything ahead of the loop that is set to a high output level could have the same impact on the loop signal. I cannot confirm that - just a theory at this point.

I don't know if any of that makes sense - but that's what I did and at a first listen it seems to have worked for me.