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  #21  
Old 06-07-2020, 10:55 PM
Ayush Ahuja Ayush Ahuja is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

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Originally Posted by Pete Gates View Post
Hey Ayush,
I'm curious about what you're doing? You've got a mixed lav track and you say you're using it as a reference... for what? Are you doing it the other way round and aligning the boom to the lav? Or is it something else?

Cheers,
Pete
Hi Pete,

The method I describe above works on a show where the Lav auto-mix track is really solid, and the auto-mix takes care of there not being more than one mic open at all times (on most scenes). I'd be happy to send you an example if required. This gives me a good best mic reference to align phase to and I have all the isos aligned to this reference so that we can also pull up any other mics when required.

This method has been working most of the time, except for scenes where the Lav mic might be badly placed. Also, since the Boom and Lav are both wireless, they exhibit roughly the same delay as opposed to when there is a wired boom and you can see the +3ms wireless delay on the Lav. So they're already closely matched when they're both in good positions and its just a phase match. On closeups we can cut to the Boom only (and a bit of Lav for tone matching if ever needed) but on mids and wides due to the Multicam nature of the show the boom gets very roomy so is just there for support.

On another show, the mix tracks are garbage and we have to work scene by scene, clip by clip, aligning to Boom or Lav.

In the early days of Auto-Align Post someone had posted a workflow method of how all the rushes were auto-aligned before PT import and conform, that is basically what I'm trying to get into our workflow somehow. The mix track has a new importance again, in providing a best mic clean phase reference.

I hope I made some sense, this is just a method i've found to work at the moment.
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2020, 06:25 AM
Pete Gates Pete Gates is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

What would make it killer for me is to be able to have multiple reference tracks - so it can deal with checkerboard booms without having to constantly switch reference tracks. (I know I could keep multiple instances open but that's a bore with screen estate)

Pete
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  #23  
Old 06-08-2020, 09:53 AM
Ayush Ahuja Ayush Ahuja is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

That would be awesome. I haven’t tried it but can AAP listen to an aux for phase reference? I assume that would only make it as fast as an offline bounce.

I would also like it if there was a way they could figure out phase matching on handles - that would be my priority request.
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  #24  
Old 06-08-2020, 02:08 PM
henningaround henningaround is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

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Originally Posted by Ayush Ahuja View Post
That would be awesome. I haven’t tried it but can AAP listen to an aux for phase reference? I assume that would only make it as fast as an offline bounce.



I would also like it if there was a way they could figure out phase matching on handles - that would be my priority request.
It can't use aux tracks. And beware that the side chain selection changes if you change the order of your tracks.

What I do is to reconform the complete sequence with EdiLoad and the original BWAVs. The results is 3-4 tracks of only Boom Mix. Then I expand everything and cut every single peace of audio on the lav tracks so that only useful stuff is left. Then I auto align let's say the first 10 lav tracks to the first boom track, then the second 10 lav tracks to the second boom track and so on. Afterwards I move all the lavs together with object tool). Result is 3-4 boom tracks and around 10 lav tracks sorted by actor, aligned and ready for editing.
It is also possible to use Quiet Art Defaulter to bring all the lav clips to a certain level.
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  #25  
Old 06-09-2020, 06:59 AM
Reckless Erik Reckless Erik is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

Actually I find Defaulter inconsistent. It may work fine on long clips but watch out on a short one! This is rather off topic though.
Auto Align Post is really a godsend for DX editing in post. I can now clean my lav tracks to within an inch of "chipmunks" and line them up with the boom. I have solid DX with air. Just so nice. There are cases that are impractical (when the boom is in the car park and the actors in the studio) but common sense usually takes care of that. Multiple sources to sync to? How is that practical? Treating the whole file usually takes care of the "handles" problem but may introduce phasing in some places, so listen to your results! I have synced multiple lav tracks to a boom reference over a scene and had really excellent and usable results.
A tool that is a must have especially when budgets have the crews shooting 2 cameras with no space for a correctly positioned boom microphone!
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  #26  
Old 06-09-2020, 01:21 PM
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Ryan Young Ryan Young is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

Hope I don't make myself look like a complete noob here... but here's my question.

TIMING WISE/even when using the boom for most of the audio: Why are so many of you choosing to align your lavs to the boom? Lav, to me, seems like it'd have the lowest delay since it's closest to the source and matches more what you're seeing on screen. The distance of the lav to the source also remains the same.

The distance of the boom is what varies so much even throughout a static shot (depending on head movement and other things)... doesn't it make sense to align the booms to the lav?
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Last edited by Ryan Young; 06-11-2020 at 02:14 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-09-2020, 01:58 PM
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Branko Branko is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Young View Post
Why are so many of you choosing to align your lavs to the boom? Lav, to me, seems like it'd have the lowest delay since it's closest to the source and matches more what you're seeing on screen. The distance of the lav to the source also remains the same.
I always prefer the sound of boom mic to lav, and I'll use lavs only to add what's missing. Therefore, main ingredient in my DX is always boom, and it's logical to slave everything to it. Speaking of perspective, to my ears (and eyes) boom fits perfectly in 99% of cases, lavs rarely.
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  #28  
Old 06-09-2020, 10:51 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Young View Post
Hope I don't make myself look like a complete noob here... but here's my question.

Why are so many of you choosing to align your lavs to the boom? Lav, to me, seems like it'd have the lowest delay since it's closest to the source and matches more what you're seeing on screen. The distance of the lav to the source also remains the same.

The distance of the boom is what varies so much even throughout a static shot (depending on head movement and other things)... doesn't it make sense to align the booms to the lav?
Habit perhaps?

Like Branko, I always default to boom. And if the boom is wired it should be the closest sync.
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  #29  
Old 06-10-2020, 04:34 AM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is online now
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

I find it sad that some people are shooting film now and relying on just Lavs for dialogue, with the boom as an afterthought.
Its always been acceptable for TV I suppose, but the boom should always the best mic to use. Its the most natural sounding mic, at the correct distance. The most expensive mic's on set and therefore best sounding.
Proximity effect on Lavs is horrible sounding and needs surgical EQ work to improve it.
The sound of a good boom mic with a skilled boom op should be all you need for good dialogue. No need to add Lavs in at all.
Auto Align Post is a great tool to get you out of an issue that previously would have needed ADR.
Lavs should be a backup insurance policy.
Sorry for the rant, but it bugs me.
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2020, 01:54 AM
Pete Gates Pete Gates is offline
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Default Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?

I don't think there's a single mixer or sound editor on the planet that prefers the sound of lav mics to booms (when the boom is vaguely in the right place).

Location shooting is such a compromise these days and sound rarely gets much of a look-in but what years ago would have necessitated ADR can now be "rescued" - and I use that word cautiously as it often doesn't come out sounding pretty but is just about usable. Lav mics themselves (such as DPA4060) are actually pretty good mics, the problem is the placement - stuffed under layers of clothes and getting lots of chest resonance (which is what we hear, most lav mics have no proximity effect, being omnidirectional) so the mic doesn't have a chance. But with wide shots/multicamera shooting/lights everywhere/machines running, the boom often doesn't have much of a chance either.

There has also been a bit of a stylistic change (in films And TV), stuff I worked on in the 80s sounds much wider when I listen to it now from a contemporary perspective. Neither is right/wrong but the current taste is generally (maybe not in an arthouse film) for a more upfront punchy sound and this plugin is great for that, allowing us to use the boom with a bit of lav added to taste and saves tons of work manually aligning.

Cheers,
Pete
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