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Old 12-27-2011, 07:01 PM
Chris Trent Chris Trent is offline
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Default PT 10.0.0 HD Native Automation Problem with Delay Comp

So I just upgraded to PT HD Native running 10.0.0 (from a 003R with 8.0.4LE) specifically to have delay compensation for Elastique, an RTAS pitch plug-in that has a staggering 11,000 samples of delay. Running a session set to maximum delay compensation (16,000+ samples) I notice that the pitch automation I make plays back early. Easiest way to see/hear this is if you take a region with a constant sound, ramp the pitch automation down at the end so that the rubber band is fully down at the end of the region but back to the midpoint (at pitch) immediately after the end of the region. During the playback you'll hear the pitch snap back to normal at the end of the sound ... which means the automation is ahead of the audio. The Dly indicator is green the whole time. I'm sure it's doing this for all plug ins, it's just easy to hear it with a pitch plug versus a compressor or eq. And to make matters worse, the playhead doesn't follow what I'm hearing or seeing with the waveform, which makes things really confusing if you're looking for a spike in a waveform while listening to edit. This is an absolute show stopper if the delay comp isn't working properly with the automation. Am I doing something wrong? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.!

Chris T.
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:45 PM
Danny Caccavo Danny Caccavo is offline
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Default Re: PT 10.0.0 HD Native Automation Problem with Delay Comp

I would suggest that instead of trying this with a pitch plug-in that you try it with numerous instances of a compressor or eq (Maxim or Waves Linear EQ come to mind). This is because pitch plug-ins (at least plug-ins like auto-tune) frequently have a different delay than is reported. The delay can vary with the pitch, so there's no way to auto-delay compensate correctly compensate for that.

If this happens with compressors or eq's then you're on to something...

dc
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:37 AM
Chris Trent Chris Trent is offline
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Default Re: PT 10.0.0 HD Native Automation Problem with Delay Comp

Ok, well, I did a test by bussing the track with Elastique set to "at pitch" with one region and fully pitched down with another region with delay comp turned off and recorded that on another track. Zooming in and visually measuring the delay looks like just about 5.6 frames on BOTH regions (equal, independent of pitch amount). With the 24 frame session I'm running, that's 11,200 samples. The plug in is reporting 11,264 samples on the track. So their delay number seems pretty accurate. Now I tried to bounce the same regions to a track with the delay comp set on max (16,000), and immediately the Dly indicator turns red and the resultant bounce is pulled ahead only 2 frames, about 3.5 short of what it should be. AND I just put 10 Maxim instances on the track instead of Elastique (completely removed), which the track now reports back 10,240 samples of delay. I automated the "ceiling" function on the 10th instance (level) and have the exact same results as the Elastique issue.

Chris
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:21 AM
Chris Trent Chris Trent is offline
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Default Re: PT 10.0.0 HD Native Automation Problem with Delay Comp

Minor update ... I see there is now a session delay box in the session setup window so I can see what's happening delay wise. In the above post, I recorded the two regions onto a track that also had the Elastique plug on it, and now I see the session delay jumps to 22k+ samples when I arm the track. The issue with PT10 not compensating even the audio enough seems to not be the case if I record to a track with no plug ins, so I guess the bussed track plugs and the record track plugs are cumulative. So lets ignore that one for now, but the problem with the automation being advanced is still an issue. I have a screen cap of the Maxim bounce example and if you see the original track with the automation rubber band dipped and the level change on the recorded file, it's obvious. Don't see a way to post a pic here though.

Chris
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:03 PM
Danny Caccavo Danny Caccavo is offline
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Default Re: PT 10.0.0 HD Native Automation Problem with Delay Comp

Yeah, I'm seeing this. It's not new to PT10, but it's effectively much worse than PT9 because of the increased allowable delay comp time. I've reported this to CS.

dc
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2012, 04:04 AM
Chris Trent Chris Trent is offline
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Default Re: PT 10.0.0 HD Native Automation Problem with Delay Comp

That's just fantastic. This is an absolute deal breaker for me (and everyone else who finds out about it too, I'm sure). Essentially I just wasted my time and money. I've said it before but this time it'll be the last time I ever buy an xx.0.x release of Pro Tools software. And gee, I don't see any Digi Techs jumping in here to give any advice or offer a workaround. I hope everyone reads this thread as it affects EVERYONE using 10.0 with automated plug ins and delay comp, which is a LARGE portion of the Pro Tools community I'd expect. I'll certainly be spreading the word. Hey AVID: this needs a CS release like yesterday ... seriously.
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