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  #1  
Old 09-05-2009, 04:30 AM
DaveSB DaveSB is offline
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Default here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

Found this post on the Planet Mu record label forum may be of interest ........................

Here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin,they are often emulated but due to their hugely complex nature are always pretty crass aproximations..

the sound of analogue equpiment including EQ, changes very noticably over even a few hours due to temperature changes within a circuit.
Anyone who has tried to make tracs on a few analogue synths and make them stay in tune can tell you this,you leave a trac running for a few hours come back and think Im sure I didnt [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]ing write that,I must be going mental!

this affects all the components in a synth/EQ in an almost infinte amount of tiny ways.
and the amount differs from circuit to circuit depending on the design.

the interaction of different channels and their respective signals with an analogue mixer are very complex,EQ,dynamics....
any fx, analogue or digital that are plugged into it all have their own special complex characteristics and all interact with each other differently and change depending on their routing.
Nobody that ive heard of has even begun to start emulating analogue mixer circuitry in software,just the aesthetics,it will come but im sure it will be a crap half hearted effort like most pretend synth plugins are.
they should be called PST synths, P for pretend not virtual.

Every piece of outboard gear has its own sound ,reverbs,modulation effects etc
real room reverb, this in itself companies have spent decades trying to emulate and not even got close in my opinion, even the best attempts like Quantec and EMT only scratch the surface.

analogue EQ is currently impossible in theory to be emulated digitally,quite intense maths [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep] involed in this if youre really that interested,you could look it up...good luck.


all the components of a circuit like resistors and capacitors subtley differ from each other depending on their quality but even the most high quality milatary spec ones are never EXACTLY the same.

no two analogue synths can ever be built exactly the same,there are tiny human/automated errors in building the circuits,tweaking the trimpots for example which is usually done manually in a lot of analogue [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep].
just compare the sound of 2 808 drum machines next to each other and you will see what I mean,you always thought an 808 was an 808 right?
same goes for 303`s they all sound subltey different,different voltage scaling of the oscillator is usually quite noticable.

VST plugins are restricted by a finite number of calculations per second these factors are WAY beyond their CURRENT capability.

Then there is the question of the physicallity of the instrument this affects the way a human will emotionally interact with it and therfore affect what they will actually do with it! often overlooked from the maths heads,this is probably the biggest factor I think.
for example the smell of analogue stuff as well as the look of it puts you in a certain mental state which is very different from looking at a computer screen.
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:48 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

I've got better things to do with my life than compare 2 808s. Different? Really? Enough to matter? No, of course not.
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Old 09-05-2009, 05:11 AM
DaveSB DaveSB is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

Your missing the point --its about plugins and can they really model Analog equipment and can they model charateristics such as temperature changes etc etc
In some markets eg IDM, experimental if they found out that you used a VI rather than a real analog synth ....i think no one would want to buy your records !
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Old 09-05-2009, 06:04 AM
jeremyroberts jeremyroberts is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

1. Troll

2. If you are making records where ANYONE asks what tools you are using as a basis for liking/disliking your work, I am sorry for your musical life.
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Old 09-05-2009, 08:51 AM
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audiobob audiobob is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSB View Post
Your missing the point --its about plugins and can they really model Analog equipment and can they model charateristics such as temperature changes etc etc
I think temperature changes in analog gear is a negative. So a piece of analog gear would sound different than it did a few hours before? Or two different pieces of the same model would sound different from each other? How is that a positive?
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Old 09-05-2009, 09:22 AM
hummerZ hummerZ is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

Yikes, terrible piece of literature on so many levels.
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Old 09-05-2009, 09:51 AM
barismanco123 barismanco123 is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

I think that the OP has valid points though they are absolutely one sided of course. I agree with a lot of what he's saying but dont actually live by it as the digital world really does have it's benefits of course.

Quote:
I think temperature changes in analog gear is a negative. So a piece of analog gear would sound different than it did a few hours before? Or two different pieces of the same model would sound different from each other? How is that a positive?
I dont know about that, I like the fact that a digital plug doesnt change but it does seem a bit scientific/clinical which is good but also a bit inhuman. Imagine every tomato you bought tasted exactly the same - that would drive me crazy, I like the fact that something one day is different to the day before, it keeps me sane.

Quote:
2. If you are making records where ANYONE asks what tools you are using as a basis for liking/disliking your work, I am sorry for your musical life.
I have a particular soft spot for Moog records (lots made in the 70's, many cover versions of classics but using the Moog as lead etc) so I collect them.

There is a market out there where a client will ask what gear your using as they are vanguard to a particular point in time and they want to acheive a certain sound. I know of quite a few people that just wont record with you if you say you use VST's over a hardware synth.

I personally take the best from both worlds.
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Old 09-05-2009, 11:11 AM
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Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

That's why I open my plugins in advance of using them - to let them warm up.

I'm teasing. I see your point - some natural variables aren't so easily repeatable in the world of 0s and 1s - I just don't think it's important in the big picture.
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:37 PM
DaveSB DaveSB is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

Im hardly a troll I wonder if we have gone backwards with VI's and plugins- the real thing will always sound better. there is a trend that is happening in the VI space where users are now looking for real analog synths and seek them out.
I started off with the Access Virus plugin and McDSP plugin and although both were ok they lead me to buy the real thing
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:11 PM
barismanco123 barismanco123 is offline
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Default Re: here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin

I think for example if I had the money I would go for a hardware set of synths and love it but instead I settle at the moment for VST's.

I've yet to hear a VST on the final product mastered CD that has the sound of an old Krautrock synth group or whatever. Be it good or bad, I personally like it though others seem to prefer that clinical sound from what it seems.

It's not just the synth too it's the desk etc etc even the way rooms were back then.

I like both.
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