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  #1  
Old 05-22-2006, 01:38 AM
1427 1427 is offline
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Default About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Hi !
I`d like to work in 24bit - 192 kHz in Pro Tools. And I want a use about 90 tracks in this sample rate.

"With qualified FireWire drives, 4 drives maximum:

Sample Rate (kHz) 192
Track/Voice Count 30" (www.digidesign.com)

Does it mean, if I want to use a 90 tracks with 24-192kHz, I need a 12 FireWire drives? And if I don`t have a free slots in my HP8200 and I use a 6 HD Accell card in the HD Expansion chassis? Can you write me a configuration for my 90 tracks of 24-192.

Best regards. Denis.
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  #2  
Old 05-22-2006, 12:07 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

The track count is finite.

"Track count" in Pro Tools HD (TDM) is not track count, but rather a finite number of voices. If you want to stream audio from a hard drive, it will use (at least) one voice. If you want to record audio to a hard drive, it will require (at least) one voice to do so.

In the TDM Mixer, there are finite numbers of things. Easiest way to think of it is as a god ol' digital mixer. All digital mixer have a finite number of channels in the mixer, right? Same with TDM, except it is voices that are finite. Internal bussing, and other track types (besides audio) are finite, but do not (necessarily) use any voices.

Sorry if you were already aware of that...

Next, DIgidesign has taken various systems, and run them with a "testing session" to observe track/voice counts at various sample and bit rates (or so I have been told...). They then "qualify" certain hardware, and then come up with the number of hard drives, and type of hard drives, they feel is adequate for running the session size, and sample/bit rate.

So, if you want to run the maximum voice count possible at 24/192k, they have qualified this scenario with XX number hard drives of XX type.

There is an exception: currently, the new Digidesign HD|Expansion Chassis allows higher voice counts. See appropriate docs online for exact info there. Caveat: The chassis imposes higher buffer numbers for using RTAS processing.
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  #3  
Old 05-22-2006, 01:36 PM
Bodie Bodie is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Nikki!

Got a question on this, I've got an HD Core card with the 192 outboard. You've seen my responses (just built my quad) and I'm curious, what do I get/gain by adding an Accel card?

Thanks,

Reid
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Minimoog Voyager, Liberation, Taurus, Phatty
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  #4  
Old 05-22-2006, 02:20 PM
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jeff markham jeff markham is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Quote:
Hi !
I`d like to work in 24bit - 192 kHz in Pro Tools. And I want a use about 90 tracks in this sample rate.


you're absolutely sure you want to do this? (i'm not a big believer in
192kHz recording).
jeff
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  #5  
Old 05-22-2006, 05:59 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Quote:
Nikki!

Got a question on this, I've got an HD Core card with the 192 outboard. You've seen my responses (just built my quad) and I'm curious, what do I get/gain by adding an Accel card?

Thanks,

Reid
Hi!
Ok, here we go!
Currently, since we XP users are stuck with the standard HD Core only, adding an Accel will give you...

1) Accel chips. These puppies are powerful. There are plugins that ONLY work on these cards, and some I love, such as ReVibe and TL Space.

2) In addition to those plugins, ADC and larger mixers which eat lots of DSP chips to build are easier, with some DSP leftover...most of the time...

3) Higher voice counts at all rates (16/44.1k->24/192k). May not seem advantageous for 16 or 24/44.1k or 48k, but jump to 88.2k or 96k (my fav), and that extra DSP makes a huge difference IMO.

4) Probably not important, but would allow 2 more I/O boxes. Each card allows 2 of the currently available I/O boxes to be hooked to it. So, since you have one now, you would be able to add 3 more.

I work with all TDM except for RTAS instruments almost exclusively. With an HD4 Accel, I am not eating all DSP most times. Doing 24/96 5.1 sessions with a nice TL Space plug, and good bussing, I can eat an HD3 Accel, leaving some breathing room with the other card. But, with your Quad, I can see how an HD3 would be overkill, unless you were looking to do TDM plugs, especially stuff like TL, ReVibe, and the double precision 48-bit plugs on TDM (like the incredibly sweet URS stuff!!).

Personally, I think an HD2 Accel rig on a sweet Quad system would simply kick, and I think I could almost be happy; only my spoiledness from working in TDM land almost exc;usively would have to be overcome. HD3 Accel + a Quad would make me quite happy; get me 64-bit OS for the extra RAM, so I can run GigaStudio3 via rewire and not worry about problems, and load HUGE libraries (like VSL), and I think I would kick over with a huge smile on my face
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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Quote:
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  #6  
Old 05-22-2006, 11:01 PM
1427 1427 is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

I have HD3. Notice that the 30 trck maximum from the 4 hard drive - this is the Digi`s specification!
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  #7  
Old 05-22-2006, 11:03 PM
1427 1427 is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Of course! The best way for me is the analog recording, but I don`t have the multitrack analog recorder right now
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  #8  
Old 05-23-2006, 08:56 AM
Bodie Bodie is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Thanks Gang.

Nikki, so if I add one Accel card, the best advantage is "access to plugs not available", higher track count at higher sampling rate, I have no outboard mixers at this point.

I'm an XP user, are you saying I can't add an Accel card? or ??? your first line says "stuck with the standard HD Core only" so I'm a bit confused.

Thanks for your time,

Reid

PS. I'm currently using my 002r and an Alesis AI3 for 16 inputs, I spoke with a PT shop last night and they stated I could get my inputs bumped to 24 on the 192 if I added the Digital card (it does the extrapolation up to 96khz if your inbound is limited to 48khz - which it is with the Alesis and the 002r...btw, can I use my 002r as an input and source it to one of the Adat's on the 192?)

My potential maximum inputs for my inbound rig looks like this:
Yamaha S90ES (1-4)
Nord G2X (1-4)
Nord Electro (1-2)
DSI Poly Evolver (1-2 can be 4)
Moog Voyager (1-2)
Access Virus (1-4)

Various single sources such as:
Moog Liberation (1 input)
Moog Taurus II (1)
Arp Odyssey (2 ody's - 2 inputs)
Arp 2600 (2 2600's - 2 inputs)
Roland Studio System 100M (2 racks, 2 inputs)
Various Guitar or Bass (typically only one)
Vocals and/or FX (typically only one)
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i7 950, 12Gb, 3 Tb, Win7-64 and 32bit
PTHD 12.7 HDCore 1 & w/002r
Macbook Pro 4Gb, 500G, OSX 10.6.2
iMac 3.06ghz, 16Gb, 2Tb, OSX 10.6.2
Minimoog Voyager, Liberation, Taurus, Phatty
Korgs, Nords and more
Arp 2600s & Ody
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  #9  
Old 05-23-2006, 09:12 AM
Bodie Bodie is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Also, in browsing parts on the Digi site, I see the Digital add-ons for the 192. In, out and Digital. Would it be more cost effective to utilize the inputs this direction? rather than the Accel or would the tandem approach be better (I know more is better ;-)...but seriously, if I want to get at least 96Khz with my HD Core and 192 as baseline and 16 inbound the goal...what's the best way to hit it?)?
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i7 950, 12Gb, 3 Tb, Win7-64 and 32bit
PTHD 12.7 HDCore 1 & w/002r
Macbook Pro 4Gb, 500G, OSX 10.6.2
iMac 3.06ghz, 16Gb, 2Tb, OSX 10.6.2
Minimoog Voyager, Liberation, Taurus, Phatty
Korgs, Nords and more
Arp 2600s & Ody
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  #10  
Old 05-23-2006, 08:20 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: About 24-192 and MAximum tracks.

Quote:
I have HD3. Notice that the 30 trck maximum from the 4 hard drive - this is the Digi`s specification!
OK- if you have an HD1 system, you can only do 12 voiced audio tracks @ 24/192k. With HD2 Accel and up, the voices jump to 36 for 24/192k. That is what the TDM fueled HD system is CAPABLE of.

Now, the hard drive claims an requirements by Digidesign are simply quotes of hardware that is required for a user to have for Digidesign to provide support for you, and for you to attain the full voice capabilities in regard to your HD setup, beit HD1, HD2 or more.

Once again: the voice limit is restricted due to the nature of the TDM enviornment FIRST. In order to be able to even attain that maximum count, one must adhere to the minimum system requirements for the ocmputer to be able to get that audio data into the TDM enviornment.
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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
Quote:
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Sometimes ya just gotta put your tongue on the 9V battery just to see what all the fuss is about.
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