Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools 10

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:02 AM
huzzam huzzam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Athens / İstanbul / Oakland
Posts: 363
Default Why AAX?

Can anyone explain to me why Avid needed to create ANOTHER plug in format?

If RTAS & TDM are the things forcing us to stay 32 bit (seems plausible) & preventing us from offline rendering, couldn't you guys have switched to, say, Audio Units & VST, which work in 64-bit & can do faster than realtime, and ALREADY EXIST? Pretty much all of my plugins (except Massey) already include AU & VST versions, even, so transitioning would be completely painless.

With this move, you're making developers code for YET ANOTHER format (thereby raising prices they have to sell for, and increasing the odds of bugs, given limited debugging time)! For the foreseeable future, devs will have to develop AAX *alongside* RTAS at least, and probably TDM as well, to keep selling to the PT9 & 8 markets, plus AU & VST if they're cross-platform devs.

I think I see the reason: you want to keep selling HD systems, so you need a plug in format that works on your DSP chips.

cynically & somewhat discouraged,
~peter in oakland
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:09 AM
Dism Dism is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Why AAX?

Avid will never adopt AU or VST. Never. Ever. AU is Apple, VST is Steinberg.

AAX makes sense because it borrows from both and it can be hosted on both native and DSP platforms.

PT10 will be the last Pro Tools to support RTAS and TDM (which means it will therefore be the last 32 bit Pro Tools). It's really a transition that allows you to still use your old setup, but also allows for the new format to take place. All it will take is cooperation from 3rd party plugin devs, which sounds like is already happened/ing.

As I've said...

The sooner we adopt AAX, the sooner Pro Tools will be 64 bit.
__________________

D
a n t h e I n c r e d i b l e S o u n d M a n

"Svetlana" v1 - 4.2GHz i7, 16GB RAM, OSX 10.7.4
Liquid Saffire 56 - PT10.2 - BFD2, VCC, Duende Native, Play 3.0

_C U R R E N T-D V E R B-S C O R E:515
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:48 AM
huzzam huzzam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Athens / İstanbul / Oakland
Posts: 363
Default Re: Why AAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
As I've said...

The sooner we adopt AAX, the sooner Pro Tools will be 64 bit.
Of course you realize that this means upgrading every plug in I (and you) care about. If they'd gone with AU, I wouldn't have to upgrade anything, except the McDSP stuff I haven't yet upgraded to v5.

Just sayin.

If they're going to go to such lengths as obsoleting RTAS & TDM (which, I acknowledge, probably have to go for forward evolution), they could have just gone with what we already have, which already works in 64-bit & faster than real-time. If they gave a [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep] about their users.

~peter in oakland
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:53 AM
Dism Dism is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Why AAX?

Well, AU is Apple proprietary... so that alienates the entire Windows userbase... and VST is Steinberg.

Switching to either means feeding the competitors directly.

Upgrading plugins always comes with upgrading to new versions of Pro Tools, especially if you like a stable system. AAX is also intended to be backwards compatible, so a session with an RTAS that now has an AAX, will open normally. If you switched to VST or AU, that would not be possible, and you would never be able to regain settings from RTAS/TDM plugs.
__________________

D
a n t h e I n c r e d i b l e S o u n d M a n

"Svetlana" v1 - 4.2GHz i7, 16GB RAM, OSX 10.7.4
Liquid Saffire 56 - PT10.2 - BFD2, VCC, Duende Native, Play 3.0

_C U R R E N T-D V E R B-S C O R E:515
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-21-2011, 02:39 AM
huzzam huzzam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Athens / İstanbul / Oakland
Posts: 363
Default Re: Why AAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
Well, AU is Apple proprietary... so that alienates the entire Windows userbase... and VST is Steinberg.

Switching to either means feeding the competitors directly.
How, exactly, would this feed Apple or Steinberg? Apple doesn't charge anything for the Audio Units SDK, so not sure what you're "feeding" Apple by using the format. Not sure what Steinberg's licensing is like, but I've heard it's fairly permissive, and given the glut of free VST plugins (of wildly varying quality, admittedly) out there, I'd guess that's true.

Quote:
Upgrading plugins always comes with upgrading to new versions of Pro Tools, especially if you like a stable system. AAX is also intended to be backwards compatible, so a session with an RTAS that now has an AAX, will open normally. If you switched to VST or AU, that would not be possible, and you would never be able to regain settings from RTAS/TDM plugs.
Um, that's just plain not true. I have the Waves SSL collection. I can save & load settings between DAWs (I also use Ableton Live), with the Waves plugins as RTAS in Pro Tools and AU or VST (either) in Live. No problems exchanging settings between RTAS & AU or VST. Zero. Why do you think that AAX will be better at recalling settings from RTAS/TDM than from AU/VST, given the same plugin?

~peter in oakland
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-21-2011, 02:48 AM
Dism Dism is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Why AAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzzam View Post
How, exactly, would this feed Apple or Steinberg? Apple doesn't charge anything for the Audio Units SDK, so not sure what you're "feeding" Apple by using the format. Not sure what Steinberg's licensing is like, but I've heard it's fairly permissive, and given the glut of free VST plugins (of wildly varying quality, admittedly) out there, I'd guess that's true.
Because... suddenly every plugin that is exclusive to Pro Tools is no longer exclusive to Pro Tools.

AU feeds Apple because you have to use OSX...


Quote:
Originally Posted by huzzam View Post
Um, that's just plain not true. I have the Waves SSL collection. I can save & load settings between DAWs (I also use Ableton Live), with the Waves plugins as RTAS in Pro Tools and AU or VST (either) in Live. No problems exchanging settings between RTAS & AU or VST. Zero. Why do you think that AAX will be better at recalling settings from RTAS/TDM than from AU/VST, given the same plugin?

~peter in oakland
This only works for plugins that have their own preset save files. You are still saving the parameters individually and recalling them for the individual plugin.

If you upgrade a previously RTAS plugin to AAX, it will open normally in Pro Tools as if you hadn't changed anything. Same with TDM. It's also designed to specifically support both DSP and Native hosts simultaneously. You can open a session that was mixed entirely native and all the AAX plugs will open and behave exactly the same on a DSP (HDX) host, and vice versa. No more clipped RTAS tracks, no more voice reallocation.
__________________

D
a n t h e I n c r e d i b l e S o u n d M a n

"Svetlana" v1 - 4.2GHz i7, 16GB RAM, OSX 10.7.4
Liquid Saffire 56 - PT10.2 - BFD2, VCC, Duende Native, Play 3.0

_C U R R E N T-D V E R B-S C O R E:515
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:56 AM
audiorivers audiorivers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: surfside, Fl 33154
Posts: 3
Default Re: Why AAX?

The great thing about Pro Tools 10 is that it supports both the AAX plug-in format as well as all of the older plug-in formats, such as an RTAS and TDM. However, AAX plug-ins feature major advantages, including updated code and an architecture that supports 64-bit processing — paving the road for truly impressive developments to come.

Designed to integrate with the new HDX DSP-acceleration hardware, Avid's AAX (Avid Audio Extension) plug-in format brings previously TDM-only plug-ins (e.g., Impact and Reverb One) into all versions of Pro Tools 10. This 64-bit-ready plug-in format lets you choose native or DSP processing, and though RTAS and TDM plug-ins continue to work in Pro Tools 10 and Pro Tools|HD 10, AAX introduces a new standard in Pro Tools plug-in development. And since Pro Tools 10 now supports up to 16,383 samples of delay compensation, you can pile on the plug-ins.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:59 AM
Emcha_audio's Avatar
Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montréal, canada
Posts: 6,344
Default Re: Why AAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiorivers View Post
The great thing about Pro Tools 10 is that it supports both the AAX plug-in format as well as all of the older plug-in formats, such as an RTAS and TDM.
Just to clarify. You Can't use a tdm or rtas plugin in PT 10. What PT 10 will do is that it will check in the plugin list that you have under the aax format, if the equivalent (ie same plugin as the rtas or tdm version) is present. If it is, it will open the aax version of the plugin and import the same settings as you had in the rtas or tdm format.

You will not be able to install a TDM or RTAS plugin under PT 10.
__________________
Manny.

#BOYCOTTTUSPRODUCTS

just not Pro tools and compatible plugins...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-21-2011, 01:01 AM
Dism Dism is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Why AAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
Just to clarify. You Can't use a tdm or rtas plugin in PT 10.
Of course you can. RTAS works fine in any native version. TDM still works on TDM cards.

You cannot use RTAS or TDM however, on a TDX card.

This is the whole point of PT10. To provide a transition platform between plugin types. It's also why PT10 is 32 bit.
__________________

D
a n t h e I n c r e d i b l e S o u n d M a n

"Svetlana" v1 - 4.2GHz i7, 16GB RAM, OSX 10.7.4
Liquid Saffire 56 - PT10.2 - BFD2, VCC, Duende Native, Play 3.0

_C U R R E N T-D V E R B-S C O R E:515
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-21-2011, 01:04 AM
Emcha_audio's Avatar
Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montréal, canada
Posts: 6,344
Default Re: Why AAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
Of course you can. RTAS works fine in any native version. TDM still works on TDM cards.

You cannot use RTAS or TDM however, on a TDX card.

This is the whole point of PT10. To provide a transition platform between plugin types. It's also why PT10 is 32 bit.
You sure? I thought in the web cast they said that the rtas or tdm were not supported but that if the plugin in the aax format was present, that it would be used with the original parameters? And vice versa when you saved the session under an ulterior pt format file.

From the pt 10 ( non hd) faq

Q: If I create a Pro Tools 10 session with AAX plug-ins, will it be backwards compatible with earlier versions of Pro Tools?
A: You'll need to save a copy of your Pro Tools session as one that's compatible with Pro Tools 9 and earlier. If you have RTAS versions installed of the AAX plug-ins used in the session, those plug-ins and settings will open.
__________________
Manny.

#BOYCOTTTUSPRODUCTS

just not Pro tools and compatible plugins...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:52 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com