Why aren't hardware devs taking AAX seriously?

[nigelpry]

I'd have to disagree with the assertion that Pro Tools MIDI rocks. I can get by using it for simple stuff, but Cubase is my preferred tool for detailed MIDI work. I'm no fan of Logic, but that is way better too.

There are many features missing in Pro Tools MIDI implementation, here's just a few that I find important ...
1) Drum Grid Editor, especially with its facility to set each different MIDI note to go to different MIDI ports and channels, so I can have custom drum maps that give me immediate access to all my favourite drum sounds in multiple hardware units, all on one MIDI track. (Logic is missing this too).
2) Drum maps also allow me to interpret MIDI data already recorded and translate it to go to different MIDI notes, so it triggers the correct sounds, especially important for hardware that is not gm/gs/xg compatible.
3) Ability to name MIDI CC automation lanes so they describe exactly what parameter is being controlled, which is often different in different hardware units.
4) Work with RPN and NRPN too, not just CC parameters. Also work with ALL MIDI CC, some are not available in Pro Tools.
5) Larger selection of automation curves to aid creating and editing automation data.
6) Logical Editor to transform existing MIDI data in a detailed and precise way.
7) MIDI effects, which apply to MIDI Data before it is sent to hardware or software synths.
8) Way more efficient and stable hosting of virtual instruments. With Pro Tools it is only feasible to use Vienna Ensemble Pro to host them, unless you are only running a small number.
9) (and as you say), MIDI hardware control plugins are easier to find in VST format. The smart controls in Logic and Inspector Panels in Cubase also make it much easier to customise and see what you are doing when working with a few CC automation parameters on particular hardware.

My current MIDI hardware at home is Akai S5000, Alesis D4 and Midiverb4, dbx DDP, Digidesign 003 Console (connected to 12xcore Intel Mac Pro) and MBox2Pro (connected to G5 Mac Pro), Drawmer DS301 (a MIDI equipped 201), Friendchip DMX32 (Digital audio matrix patchbay/router, routing changes made via MIDI), Kenton Plugstation with Yamaha PLG-100DX, PLG-150AN, PLG-150PF and PLG-150VL cards, Korg X3-r, Lexicon MPX550, M-Audio Midisport 8x8s x2 and 4x4 x2 (all connected to Intel Mac Pro and MIDI ports connecting to all the other hardware listed), MOTU Traveller (connected to MacBookPro), Novation A-Station, Roland A-80, AX-1, D550+PG1000, MKS50+PG300, Octapad and PMA-5, SCI Prophet 5, Siel DK600, TC Electronics M5000, M3000 and M2000, Waldorf Pulse Plus, Yamaha DX7S, QY700 and TX802.

So I do play with a fair bit of MIDI hardware, as well as software VI.

Biggest regret ... selling my OSCar to a friend who coveted it, on the proviso that I had first option to buy it back if he ever decided to sell it, only for him to sell it on years later at a vast profit without even contacting me to give me the chance to buy it back. Thank goodness for G-Force's excellent software emulation!

And ... as my signature says ... then there is the studio!

[WorldStudios]

It is easy to select all notes of the same kind. You simply press the keyboard on the left side of the editor. Press shift to select a range or command to select several in different positions.

[Bob Olhsson]

The deal is that CueBase has been the biggest selling MIDI sequencer by far for decades. Developers make that massive hobbyist customer base their first priority.

[TNM]

Originally Posted by WorldStudios

It is easy to select all notes of the same kind. You simply press the keyboard on the left side of the editor. Press shift to select a range or command to select several in different positions.

yes you are right about the equal pitch,I wasn't thinking. That's always been one think i really like about the piano roll in PT..

but you can't select one note, and then right click and say "select all following equal sub positions". That really makes changing a value for one note across a long length, incredibly easy. If there is a way to do it and I just don't know, please tell me. It's not just that though, Logic's midi selection menu is very powerful, extending far beyond just "equal pitch".

Also, in pro tools if you want to set different notes to the same value, you need to open the event editor. There aren't keyboard shortcuts whilst mouse clicking to do so.

It's just little things like that (in cubase it's the command key, logic it's alt shift) that speed up workflow, in my humble opinion. And Avid realise this, as they had midi workflow enhancements on their official survey this year.

I chose pitch editing aka integrated melodyne style as the most important feature, as with the midi, i can live with it, and it beats using many other programs.. for example studio one, which has incredibly weak midi, no sysex or event list, and well, i find it clunky to use.
Cubase's midi is more powerful than Logic's, true, with the drum editor and vst3 note expression, but i'd still take Logic over Cubase for midi any day.. Cubase piano roll is really clunky to use, the way it "feels". Again IMHO.

@nigelpry, I must admit i am very surprised neither apple nor avid have added a dedicated drum mode in the midi editor.. that's a bit strange.. however, for me personally, editing drums in pro tools is much easier than Logic, as i create custom drum sequencers using the seperate note to tracks function, and it literally becomes a drum step sequencer with one click paint or erase.

Still, a dedicated drum editor would be nice, but regardless, i'd take Pro tools piano roll over cubase's any day, especially the inline one where as cubase's is awful. Cubase needs a seperate window open for warp point editing audio.. this to me makes pro tools already far ahead of anything (logic flex is sort of close but again, clunky implementation).. and NOTHING has clip gain like pro tools. A couple have tried, but the implementation is beyond horrible. AKA Steinberg's attempt.

For the so called great 'inspectors' in Logic and Cubase, in Logic you need to open the top inspector every single time you want to gain change a clip. *this alone* means i will never go back to audio editing in Logic, ever. Click a clip or multiple clips, then manually change value in inspector. Rinse and repeat. it is SO laborious, and furthermore, logic has a large delay between doing it and hearing the result audibly, as it does with any kind of audio edit (even deleting a clip on the arrange page or moving it.. eek!)..

As far Nigel as your reasons why Cubase midi is better, for me personally, the absolute only thing I prefer about Cubase midi to Pro tools is the built in drum sequencer. For general piano roll use and feel, i prefer pro tools by a mile, and it's event editor is actually really quite powerful, as are real time attributes which is a sort of inspector you can show permanently anyway.

[Eric Lambert]

Developers take it seriously, and if there's money to be made from PT customers why wouldn't they, so maybe there's a reason why it's not more common amongst all plugin developers? e.g. doesn't Avid still charge a fee to developers? This used to be a hurdle which some companies wouldn't, or couldn't, warm up to, and why they refused to deal with AAX.

Regarding MIDI, it works (and I use it for composition) but compared to other DAWs it's not spectacular. One of the tougher to work with. And new features hardly trickle in. I think back to the days of Opcode's Vision or StudioVision -- a full 25 years ago -- and its feature set blew today's ProTools out of the water. Brilliantly intuitive. And yet PT can't even mimic that ancient app?

[Bob Olhsson]

I have never heard of Avid charging developers a fee.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I have never heard of Avid charging developers a fee.

They most definitely do.

It's been stated by other developers on the forums before.

I've also been in touch with a couple of devs for a custom plugin I wanted created and they both said that there would be an extra fee for the AAX version as there were some fees involved.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that the fees may be due to the PACE signing. If so, then it's not actually AVID charging the fee, but PACE. AVID forces AAX plugins to be code signed where as VST/AU plugins don't have this.

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[TNM]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

Developers take it seriously, and if there's money to be made from PT customers why wouldn't they, so maybe there's a reason why it's not more common amongst all plugin developers? e.g. doesn't Avid still charge a fee to developers? This used to be a hurdle which some companies wouldn't, or couldn't, warm up to, and why they refused to deal with AAX.

Regarding MIDI, it works (and I use it for composition) but compared to other DAWs it's not spectacular. One of the tougher to work with. And new features hardly trickle in. I think back to the days of Opcode's Vision or StudioVision -- a full 25 years ago -- and its feature set blew today's ProTools out of the water. Brilliantly intuitive. And yet PT can't even mimic that ancient app?

compared to what daws?

as far as the aax fee, if small devs like hornet with 5 euro plugins when on sale 10 times a year can play it, roland can pay it. That's a ridiculous reasoning IMO.

[Darryl Ramm]

VI vendors will take Avid and AAX more seriously if they ever see Pro Tools focus on features for the composition market. AAX adoption amongst VIs is the tail, the dog is the product focus. The dog wags the tail.



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[TNM]

once again you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and interjecting your nonsense for no reason.

VI means virtual instrument.. This has NOTHING to do with the topic I have created..

Every single major *VI* developer in existence, already takes pro tools and avid seriously. EVERY important virtual synth and sampler is in AAX native format. Even Steinberg have ported Halion with version 6. Steinberg only started with VST, and slowly begrudgingly moved to AU as well, so for them to do AAX is a huge step.

What I am talking about is control panel instruments for hardware synths, as made clear in my opening post.
It is curiously, only this sector of the market, that has not ben adopted to AAX yet. As far as VI's, AAX is more than covered. Way more.

Do you ever actually answer ON topic, ever?