The Time to Un-Cripple PTLE Has Come

[fubusmaximus]

I've been a loyal customer of Digidesign's for what seems to be far too long. I've considered and tried other options such as Nuendo, Logic, etc but I just can't get into them... Anyhow, I've been reading this blog called The Consumerist (www.consumerist.com) and what I would like to do is use some of their methods to try and get some much needed features added to PTLE such as:

PDC/ADC

Unlimited Tracks

More ADAT inputs so I can actually use 96k for a session with drums

etc...

They sometimes suggest doing an "Executive Email Carpet Bomb." You can find details about that here: http://consumerist.com/consumer/how-...ion-316524.php

I think if all of us on this forum got together and also recruited others and started doing Executive Email Carpet Bombs we might see some results, because let's face it, they don't pay any attention to the feature request form.

Is anyone else down for this? At least go check out the link above and tell me what you think.

[Ragged Edge]

LE stands for?

[bvcreative]

I understand Ragged Edge's terse point, but let's talk reality. In the price point in which PTLE has been, there are just too many other great packages out there now that offer unlimited tracks. It IS unfair to the users of PTLE to have to suffice with the limited track count when ALL their competitors have software that does not limit tracks. Pro Tools/Digidesign is behind the eight-ball on this. LE doesn't ONLY mean limited tracks - it is not an HD system, and does have other limitations that still keep it in the lower tier of their offerings.

There's not much excuse anymore for Digi to hold out on this. It's time they changed their strategy, and I would definitely support a campaign for users to stand up for this!

[stoneinapond]

I understand Ragged Edge's terse point, but let's talk reality. In the price point in which PTLE has been, there are just too many other great packages out there now that offer unlimited tracks. It IS unfair to the users of PTLE to have to suffice with the limited track count when ALL their competitors have software that does not limit tracks. Pro Tools/Digidesign is behind the eight-ball on this. LE doesn't ONLY mean limited tracks - it is not an HD system, and does have other limitations that still keep it in the lower tier of their offerings.

There's not much excuse anymore for Digi to hold out on this. It's time they changed their strategy, and I would definitely support a campaign for users to stand up for this!

Yes, let's talk reality. Let's take Cubase 4 for instance. Software only for $800 dollars street.

No mic preamps. Cost of four moderate peamps?

No converters. No head phone monitoring. No ADAT input for additional eight channels of recording.

If you want unlimited track count, go with Steinberg, go with Logic. Enjoy their wonderful GUI. But pay up for the rest of the system. And if your interface won't work with the software, best of luck getting either company to help with the other product.

So what is integration worth?

[bvcreative]

Stoneinapond,

As far as I can see, nothing in your post directly relates to the issue at hand, which is track count. Sure, integration is good, but by no means does Digi have a corner on that market. I also have a Yamaha 01X system that integrates perfectly with Sonar. There are lots of third-party control systems for various software.

IMHO, track count limitations is a dinosaur, just a hold-out from Digi that needs to be eliminated. The competition has proven that it is easily done from a software perspective - the limits are dictated by the power of the user's system. Let the user have as many tracks as the system can handle!! If Digi is so afraid of the competition, they had better start giving their customers software/hardware that compares in features and pricepoint, instead of trying to bleed them for money just to get what others are offering out of the box. Musicians Toolkit? Come on. $500 bucks, that's effen ridiculous, just to add another few tracks??? There just isn't a good excuse for it. You cannot tell me that the internal workings of that upgrade justify the expense.

Trying to limit or constrain users based purely on brand loyalty or market saturation when they can get more value for the same price or less is a dangerous game to play. They WILL end up losing in the long run. The market dictates features, and the market has spoken on this - unlimited tracks is where the vast majority of other manufacturers have gone.

I'm also ticked at Digi for stripping the 003 from being a standalone mixer. No excuse for this either, a firmware update could give this capability back to users. I bought Digi stuff for one reason only, to be compatible with other studios. It doesn't mean I necessarily think their stuff is the best, and doesn't mean I'm "loyal" to them either. If you want to win me over, offer better value than the competition!! Don't place artificial limits on the product that only hurt the end user. That's just corporate stupidity, for it will eventually backfire.

[dubaifox]

I've considered and tried other options such as Nuendo, Logic, etc but I just can't get into them...

Therein lies the reason that Pro Tools is able to market itself the way it does.

Yes, other DAWS may appear to offer more on paper, but consumers vote with their dollars and say otherwise.

At the end of the day, it is your choice. It does not make much sense to complain about it.
Nobody is forcing you to use PT. Vote with your dollars and use a different DAW.

[shanabit]

I've been a loyal customer of Digidesign's for what seems to be far too long. I've considered and tried other options such as Nuendo, Logic, etc but I just can't get into them... Anyhow, I've been reading this blog called The Consumerist (www.consumerist.com) and what I would like to do is use some of their methods to try and get some much needed features added to PTLE such as:


I think if all of us on this forum got together and also recruited others and started doing Executive Email Carpet Bombs we might see some results, because let's face it, they don't pay any attention to the feature request form.

Is anyone else down for this? At least go check out the link above and tell me what you think.

I REALLY wonder how much you "TRIED" the other DAWS. It takes at least a year to really get to know an app. Nuendo has EVERYTHING your wanting and then some. So does Logic. Try DP then, its pretty cheap and is the CLOSEST to Protools as far as the way it functions.

Your NOT going to get anywhere with your carpet bomb idea. Digi does what they do and will not be changed because YOU as the customer want it YOUR way. If you feel that LE is that crippled, you owe it to yourself to check out the competition. You can also move to Protools HD which is what DIGI really wants EVERYONE to do BTW, I couldnt get into Protools when I first got it either as I was "USED" to using Cubase. Other apps ARE NOT Protools so quit expecting them to be so.
Each app is its own thing. I never understand why people constantly complain about other apps when in reality, they are just USED to the one they have. Exploit the best parts of each app is what I do. I use both apps and enjoy both equally well. I also realize that no matter how much I compain about the lack of tracks, PDC/ADC, minimal ADAT inputs etc, its NOT gonna change DIGIs marketing . And Yes, I have filled out the FEATURE REQUEST form many times LOL. I FEEL your pain here with this, really I do.

Heres a good list:
Mac side:
Nuendo
Cubase
Logic
Digital Performer
Ableton Live

PC side:
Nuendo
Cubase
Ableton
Sonar
SAW Studio
Vegas

[shanabit]

[QUOTE]

Yes, let's talk reality. Let's take Cubase 4 for instance. Software only for $800 dollars street.

No mic preamps. Cost of four moderate peamps?

No converters. No head phone monitoring. No ADAT input for additional eight channels of recording.

If you want unlimited track count, go with Steinberg, go with Logic. Enjoy their wonderful GUI. But pay up for the rest of the system. And if your interface won't work with the software, best of luck getting either company to help with the other product.

So what is integration worth?

Your integration theory is a litte off here, sorry. Ive been runing Cubase from SX1 till now just fine on my MOTU 828MKii. Currently using Cubase 4.1. If we went with your theory then NO ONE outside of Protools users would be doing any recording. This is just not the case as you would suppose.

Dont forget those nice Errors Protools give you either. I love the integrated harness/power supply issue LOL
I have HEASPHONE monitoring on my MOTU BTW in addtion to LATENCY FREE MONITORING I also like the GUI in Cubase

Lets look at some numbers:
Cubase 4.1 $799 or
Cubase Studio 4.1 $399
MOTU 828MKII $749.97

At the MOST= $1548.97 with Cubase 4.1 for the SAME I/O digi give you
At the LEAST = $1148.97 with Cubase studio which is STILL more powerful than any Protools LE.


Protools DIGI 003 Rack $1199.97, 32 track limit, no full BEAT DETECTIVE,
DIGI 003 Rack with FACTORY $1549.97 32 track limit, another $500 for 16 more tracks
DIGI 003 Rack with MPT which is still only 48 tracks = $1699.97

I here what your saying here but Ive had JUST as many issues with Protools as I have had with any other app. Honestly, if Protools LE had ADC for external instruments and unlimted track count, Id
be a happy camper. As it stands right now, its MORE than useful. I cant blame the app for my suck factor here. LOVE the new Elastic Audio BTW

[stoneinapond]

Your integration theory is a litte off here, sorry. Ive been runing Cubase from SX1 till now just fine on my MOTU 828MKii. Currently using Cubase 4.1. If we went with your theory then NO ONE outside of Protools users would be doing any recording. This is just not the case as you would suppose.

I'm not sure what theory you are referring to. And how do you stretch my post to "NO ONE outside of Protools users would be doing any recording."?

Dont forget those nice Errors Protools give you either. I love the integrated harness/power supply issue LOL

I also never stated that ProTools doesn't have problems. The difference is I only have to deal with a single company to get any issues resolved.

I have HEASPHONE monitoring on my MOTU BTW in addtion to LATENCY FREE MONITORING I also like the GUI in Cubase

Great. Enjoy. Not knocking Cubase, and Nuendo4 has some really great features that I hope Digidesign incorporates in later updates.

Lets look at some numbers:
Cubase 4.1 $799 or
Cubase Studio 4.1 $399
MOTU 828MKII $749.97

At the MOST= $1548.97 with Cubase 4.1 for the SAME I/O digi give you
At the LEAST = $1148.97 with Cubase studio which is STILL more powerful than any Protools LE.


Protools DIGI 003 Rack $1199.97, 32 track limit, no full BEAT DETECTIVE,
DIGI 003 Rack with FACTORY $1549.97 32 track limit, another $500 for 16 more tracks
DIGI 003 Rack with MPT which is still only 48 tracks = $1699.97

Other than the issue of track count, you have basically proved my point. So if track count is so important to you, then use something else. Carping on about Digidesign not having unlimited scribble space for you to try out ideas will not change anything. Other than you will never learn the discipline of commitment and knowing what you want to achieve prior to working. For those that need endless experimentation, as I said, look elsewhere.

For me, the beauty of PT is the elegant mixing and recording environment. It's clear, it's functional, editing audio is a breeze and with Elastic Audio (which I have yet to try,) the Beat Detective issue is moot.

ADC is another thing that irks me. Many RTAS plug-ins introduce no latency. And if you can' get things recorded well in the first place that you have to resort to massive plug-in correction, then I suggest to those people that they go back and relearn some basic recording techniques.

And before a bunch of posters come on and accuse me of being an old fart, I'll save them the bother. I am an old fart. And sometimes cranky at that. None the less, thanks for the thoughtfull effort.

[Headmxr]

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the more tracks with plugins I accumulate on PT sessions, the more strain it is on my CPU. I use PT for video post, so my situation is more cpu taxing than on music projects, but 32 tracks is the limit that my system will handle while running video. I have the option of having 48 tracks (I have DV Toolkit 2) but opt not to do it. Also, with good organization and planning, I find 32 tracks is more than adequate for all my projects. Remember, Sgt. Peppers was done on a 4 track.