Accel Card Vs. The Latest Macs (DSP Power)

[specialkm]

Need more DSP and have been contemplating either another Accel card or selling off my old HD rig and getting a new Mac 8 core and newer cards. This would probably mean staying with a Core card and one Accel card at first.

My question is - how much plug in power do you get from an 8 core running RTAS compared to a single Accel card running the same TDM plugs. I'm thinking that there's probably more DSP power to the buck going with a new computer, but I'm not sure.

Anyone able to do a meaningful comparison?

[Keybeeetsss]

Honestly man its really NO comparison, in Favor of the New Mac 8 Core or really any new comp now beit a new Mac or i7 etc. 1 Accel Card could maybe get u 30-40 dverbs compared to 280-300 & we're talking the PT8 dverb which uses more CPU power than the previous Dverbs..

U should look for Shane or maybe he'll chime in & really blow ur mind & keep u from blowing ur money!!!

[JFreak]

Who cares about few hundred Dverbs? How many VSS3's can you run native? Or how many Eventide Reverbs? Princeton Digitals? ReVibes? The only reverb that I could run native is the Sonnox Reverb and I don't want to use it everywhere. There are tons of TDM-only plugs that you can't run native. Sure, if you have HD2 you have plenty of real power there, but you will have to plan ahead which plugs to run TDM and which RTAS, and in which order you place those plugs because you probably don't want to spend million exra voices just for RTAS.

But okay, new host computer and new DSP cards is never a bad idea. Just know that Digi might have something new coming, because HD is +7yr old already (even the latest pcie cards are +3yr) and the pcix->pcie cross-grade is so much overpriced. All this points to some kind of change relatively soon; still, I would recommend maxing out at HD3 and see if it's enough for you to stay TDM-only. At least do not spend thousands on the best CPU out there, getting the cheapest 8-core gives the most bang for the buck.

If you don't really need to buy now, then don't. At least i'm going to wait until fall before I buy anything...

[specialkm]

Well, it's just that my dual 2.5 is starting to get pretty long in the tooth right now. I also have a lot of projects where I use Logic or PT with a lot of virtual instruments so a newer faster computer would sure be nice for that.

I'd also like to move to Leopard and PT8, but from what I hear, Leopard will tax my G5 even more. I'd hate to by another Accel card and then turn around and have to sell it off because I can't use it in the newer computer.

With the economy the way it is right now I've been trying not to spend money. If I do then I want to get the most bang for the buck in terms of system power and DSP I can.

[JFreak]

I have a Quad G5 and Leopard runs just fine. Upgrade to Leopard first and run 7.4.2 with it, and then make decisions if needed. Leopard is relatively cheap and you can sell it with your G5 once you part with it. But I'd say it still has plenty of useful lifetime ahead...

[Shan]

Originally Posted by specialkm

Need more DSP and have been contemplating either another Accel card or selling off my old HD rig and getting a new Mac 8 core and newer cards. This would probably mean staying with a Core card and one Accel card at first.

My question is - how much plug in power do you get from an 8 core running RTAS compared to a single Accel card running the same TDM plugs. I'm thinking that there's probably more DSP power to the buck going with a new computer, but I'm not sure.

Anyone able to do a meaningful comparison?

Some benchmarks comparing DSP power to ponder over:

Mac System Configuration:

Mac Pro (Early 2009)
2x 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
6GB RAM (6x 1GB)
300GB HDD
Digi 003 Rack
Mac OS X 10.5.6 (9G3553)
Pro Tools LE 8.0.0cs2
Complete Toolkit
Dverb 8.0.0

D-Verb benchmark test:

[15 CPUs/85%]
445 D-Verbs @ 1024 samples H/W buffer
285 D-Verbs @ 64 samples
175 D-Verbs @ 32 samples

[15 CPUs/99%]
456 D-Verbs @ 1024 samples
287 D-Verbs @ 64 samples
185 D-Verbs @ 32 samples

PT sees 16 cores in that system. Unfortunately, one of the cores has to be disabled to run PT at all but that's an issue with RTAS.


PC System Configuration:

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66Ghz with Hyper Threading on(8 logical cores) and w/OC @3.6 benchmarks on PC using XP Pro SP3.

D-Verb benchmark test:

344 Dverbs benchmarked at a H/W buffer of 64.

409 Dverbs benchmarked at a H/W buffer of 1024.


HD System Configuration:

HD7 - 256 TDM Dverbs at any buffer.

HD Accel cards will do 38 TDM Dverbs per card.

HD Core cards will do 28 TDM Dverbs per card using the same benchmark.


Having said that, take the above with a big grain of salt. What kind of plug-ins are you going to use that you need more DSP for? If it's Virtual Instruments, then you are pretty much stuck with RTAS and just a computer upgrade would suffice. Keep in mind that there are issues running a gazillion RTAS VI's at this point. Are you using alot of TDM only plug-ins that have no RTAS version? Then just grab another Accel card.

In my opinion, I dont think downgrading your perfectly working HD system to a new computer and HD 2 would be a good idea. Yes, I'm a big advocate of native but even I wouldn't do it. If you need more DSP, grab another Accel card. That's what they're there for. I'm sure some HD 2 users here can offer more advice with the pros and cons. If you're really strapped for cash, then the used market for an Accel card might be a better idea. I realize that Digi makes no revenue from that but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

I cant see Digi adding new DSP cards when there is nothing wrong with the current cards. Unless HD sales have completely stopped, there is no way they are going to add a more powerful card for a cheaper price. If one needs more DSP, then they want you to buy an Accel card. I cant see that changing at all. Most current HD owners are happy with what they have because it just works. How would you convince them to buy new hardware when there current system just works? At the same time, Digi would have to try and convince a whole new up and coming generation that the new hardware is the bees knees future that you have to invest in. That might be a tough sell to the 20 year olds growing up on native.

Ya, native is pretty powerful these days, but there is nothing wrong with the current HD hardware. It works and that's the bottom line.

Your system is solid and it works. Grab another Accel card.

Shane

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Keybeeetsss

U should look for Shane or maybe he'll chime in & really blow ur mind & keep u from blowing ur money!!!

Yes, I am a big advocate of native but there is also a point where you have to be realistic with things. There is no way I would downgrade a perfectly working HD system. Personally that would be a bad business move. Yes we can find fault with HD and fault with native but HD works and that's the bottom line.

Really really evaluate your needs before doing such a thing.

Shane

[Keybeeetsss]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Who cares about few hundred Dverbs? How many VSS3's can you run native? There are tons of TDM-only plugs that you can't run native.

& all the same who cares about TDM only plugs... So thatz something of preference b/c my favorite Verb ITB is TL Space & even with most HD rigs I work on (with other engineers) thatz a goto verb... So ones preference is what it is...

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Keybeeetsss

& all the same who cares about TDM only plugs... So thatz something of preference b/c my favorite Verb ITB is TL Space & even with most HD rigs I work on (with other engineers) thatz a goto verb... So ones preference is what it is...

Yea, agreed, whatever you use that's what you want to be using.

I myself would also probably like those impulse reverbs, IF they were not that slow. Latency is unbearable, except Altiverb of course but that's TDM and eats a whole card to breakfast.

ReVibe for example only takes 2 samples to process. That's the way to go when you do live projects or need to put some reverb into artist's headphones. Nothing slower than about 10 milliseconds will do.

But that's another story. I do mostly live so I have to do everything within that 10(ish) milliseconds.

[Shifted Music]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I do mostly live so I have to do everything within that 10(ish) milliseconds.

in that type of situation there is no other choice in computer workstation, but for production editing and mixing a le rid works great. I recently had a mix that was prepped at home then brought to my HD3 studio to finish the mix and it wouldn't even open on the hd rig (when opening all the plug ins convert to tdm) and I am only using s dual 2.7 at home... so imagine a 8 core machine.

a hybrid HD core or HD2 (for delay compensation and some TDM only plugs) and a powerful machine for other various RTAS and VI's would be a great workstation.