Pro Tools HD without a mixer or control surface. Ways to connect to your monitors

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by Delta Music Belgium

About the talk back button: I suppose your monitoring levels are way too loud, I never heard a pop, ever!

To each his own... why do you feel like I'm attacking you just because I've had the opposite experience as you? Do you also own an Avocet? Have you done a side by side comparison? It's a shame, because snide remarks like, "I supposed your monitoring levels are way too loud, I never heard a pop, ever!" make you lose credibility, because it shows you really don't know what you are talking about nor did you take the time to assess the problem before trying to make a smart-%@! remark.

FYI, Doesn't matter what level you have the monitor output at. I could have the thing turned all the way down to zero. When I release the tlkbk button a very loud pop gets sent through the monitors and the headphone send (to the musicians).

If yours isn't having any problems maybe one of the lucky few. When we called Grace about it they literally said, "yeah, it's a known issue. There's nothing we can do about it at this point." We even offered our services as a beta tester for any kind of fix, since they need to replace circuitry inside the box to fix the problem... they never followed up.

Why would you like meters on a monitor controller? I don't see the point... I just want to choose inputs, switch speakers sets and adjust the volume. Of course accurate metering happens before the monitoring stage on separate, calibrated meters (hardware and/or software).

Wow, again with the snide remarks. Well, why wouldn't you want meters in front of you!?!?!? I find it very useful to see what the peak levels are in the daw. Since Protools is in a machine room and I deal with protools session that have 60 to 100 tracks on a regular basis, it's very nice to be able to see what my mix bus is doing without having to scroll around to find the Master fader or flip back and forth between different view markers. Sure, having dorrough meters or an ICON would be better... but it's nice to have some visual feedback as to what's happening inside your daw if you don't have those pieces of gear.

Same goes for downmixing 5.1 to stereo LtRt, I would never trust my monitor controller to do that, this happens in PT HD with appropriate plug-in's.

Ok, really? Did you really feel you needed to make an ignorant comment about downmixing as well?! Obviously you've never used a Multimax EX and don't understand the signal flow. If you did, you'd see WHY it would be more advantageous and just plain easier to do with a Multimax instead of a plugin.

It's just my personal experience... my m906 performs perfect and sounds amazing!

That's great for you... but if you are interested in purchasing something, wouldn't you also like to hear any bad experiences people have had with the unit along with all the good experinces?

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by hobing

About the AVOCET... i used it a lot in another studio, and there's still another one in a bigger studio that I occasionally book. Both have the same problem: the Talkback button is not always responsive. Never sure if it's being latched (or released). Oftentimes the producer talks for half a minute before realising that the artist didn't hear a thing.

Also, after over 2 years of operation, both studios don't really know exactly how to use some of its functionalities. Some buttons never seem to be accessible, and they've both given up on complex setups (read: headphone mixes) because the artists didn't seem to hear what they were supposed to hear. I guess it must have been our fault, not reading the manual carefully, but after all, shouldn't such a device be easily configured by anyone who has a certain amount of studio skills? (We're talking about one big studio and a bunch of top producers)

I'm quite disappointed by the Avocet, more because most other Crane Song products are fantastic (I'm a Spider owner and often get to use the Trakker and the HEDD)

Well that sucks, I'm sorry to hear you had some bad experiences with it. I wonder how they setup the heaphone mix so that the musicians wouldn't be able to hear certain things?

Here's how I setup my headphone mixes with the avocet, maybe this can help you find what the problem might be next time you are in the room...

The Headphone system on the avocet is a simple stereo in/stereo out and it injects the talkback mic into the output when the talkback button is pushed.

In Protools, I have output A 1-2 setup as my stereo mix and that goes Digitally (AES) into the first AES input on the Avocet (the first white button labeled "Daw").

Next I have analog outputs 3-4 setup as my headphone mix and I connect that in the patchbay to the 3rd analog input of the avocet (last blue button labeled "Aux"). If you don't have a patchbay you can hard wire it as well.

There is a stereo headphone jack on the front of the IO rack unit, but there is also a stereo headphone output within the DB25 connector on the back of the unit. I wired this into the patchbay and normalled it to the stereo headphone tie lines into the live room, but you can do whatever you'd like. I suggest leaving the headphone jack on the front of the box open so you can plug phones in and listen to the heaphone send yourself for troubleshooting. The plug on the front and the connectors in the DB25 are identical.

So... now that everything is patched, there are two ways I send headphone mixes. If I'm with a producer and I want to have a separate headphone mix and control room mix, I'll do it the "first" way.

I'll send the "Aux" input on the avocet to the headphone outputs. To do this, simply press on the blue "Phones" button in the upper left of the remote (you'll notice some of the LEDs on the remote change once pressed), now press the "Aux" button in the lower left so it is selected. You'll notice in small letters under "Aux" it says "Phones/Aux". This means with the "Phones" button enabled, clicking on the "Aux" button sends the Aux input to the phones. Then hit the Phones button again so it is not highlighted and you are back to regular operation and the headphone output will be fed from the Aux input.

Also, with the phones button pressed, the volume knob doesn't effect your monitoring volume, it effects the volume level of the headphone output of the avocet. If musicians say the headphones are too quiet. Hit the Phones button and then turn up the volume knob. When you are done, hit the phones knob again and it brings you back.

So... with "Phones/Aux" selected, the headphone mix is anything coming out of A 3-4. In Protools, assign one of the aux sends to A 3-4 across all the channels. Change them all to "PRE" for pre-fader. And then hit "Cmd"+"Opt"+"H". This will bring up a window which will copy whatever mix you have dialed in on your main faders to whatever aux send you have the headphone mix on. I find this the quickest way to get up and running... once you've done that, you can tweak the sends from there. And remember, since it's coming into the Aux Input on the Avocet, if you want to hear the headphone mix, all you have to do is switch from the "Daw" button to the "Aux" button and you can hear whatever changes you are mixing to the headphone mix (make sure you are in regular operation mode. If the phones button is still lit it won't change your Control room monitoring source).

The second way, which is even easier, is to use YOUR stereo control room mix as the headphone mix. Whatever you hear, the musician hears. To do this, Select "Phones" again. Then select either "Analog 1" or "Analog 2" in the lower right of the remote. If you look at the smaller print you'll notice, Analog 1 has "Phones/PGM" and Analog 2 has "Phones/Main".

Both buttons send your stereo mix to the headphones...but "Phones/PGM" means that your control room volume is linked to the headphone output volume of the avocet. When you turn it down in the CR, the headphones get turned down. This is cool for mixing and checking your mix on headphones. The "Phones/Main" means the main mix gets sent to the headphones without your CR volume effecting the headphone volume. In this case, you use the volume knob when the "phones" button is on to adjust the headphone volume. Your control room volume level has no effect on the headphone volume. This is usually the preferred way if you are tracking someone.

About the talkback. If you wire up an external TB switch off the DB25 pin connector with a momentary switch, it won't latch ever.

The way the talkback on the remote works is like this. if you hold the button for under 2 seconds it latches on. Touch it again and it latches off. If you hold the button for more than 2 seconds it becomes momentary and as soon as you release the button after the 2 seconds has gone by, it switches off the talkback.

Now they have a firmware update (rev7) where the talkback becomes momentary after just 0.5 seconds instead of 2, this means it will only latch if you literally tap it. I like the latching though, While I'm doing things with the keyboard and mouse I can leave the Talkback latched and the producer and I can talk away. When he's done i just tap the button again and turn off the talkback.

Also, one thing to make a note of. When talkback is turned on, you can set the CR volume differently by simply moving the volume knob. Instead of always having a 10dB or 20dB drop in the CR Volume when the talkback is on, you can set it however you want and whenever you engage Talkback the volume jumps to whatever you set it at.

Anyway, I hope this helps you next time you are in those rooms. If you have any questions let me know...

[Delta Music Belgium]

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

To each his own... why do you feel like I'm attacking you just because I've had the opposite experience as you? Do you also own an Avocet? Have you done a side by side comparison? It's a shame, because snide remarks like, "I supposed your monitoring levels are way too loud, I never heard a pop, ever!" make you lose credibility, because it shows you really don't know what you are talking about nor did you take the time to assess the problem before trying to make a smart-%@! remark.

FYI, Doesn't matter what level you have the monitor output at. I could have the thing turned all the way down to zero. When I release the tlkbk button a very loud pop gets sent through the monitors and the headphone send (to the musicians).

If yours isn't having any problems maybe one of the lucky few. When we called Grace about it they literally said, "yeah, it's a known issue. There's nothing we can do about it at this point." We even offered our services as a beta tester for any kind of fix, since they need to replace circuitry inside the box to fix the problem... they never followed up.

Wow, again with the snide remarks. Well, why wouldn't you want meters in front of you!?!?!? I find it very useful to see what the peak levels are in the daw. Since Protools is in a machine room and I deal with protools session that have 60 to 100 tracks on a regular basis, it's very nice to be able to see what my mix bus is doing without having to scroll around to find the Master fader or flip back and forth between different view markers. Sure, having dorrough meters or an ICON would be better... but it's nice to have some visual feedback as to what's happening inside your daw if you don't have those pieces of gear.

Ok, really? Did you really feel you needed to make an ignorant comment about downmixing as well?! Obviously you've never used a Multimax EX and don't understand the signal flow. If you did, you'd see WHY it would be more advantageous and just plain easier to do with a Multimax instead of a plugin.

That's great for you... but if you are interested in purchasing something, wouldn't you also like to hear any bad experiences people have had with the unit along with all the good experinces?

O.G. Killa, I know about your reputation on the DUC (see example in this thread)... so I will keep the most of my comments wisely to myself...

I had never the intention to make any 'snide remarks' (I wrote 'I suppose', this is not a fact or a snide remark, just a supposition) or to make 'ignorant comments' (these are just my honest opinions and professional experiences).

It's all in the eye of the beholder, not in the hand of the writer, you always feel attacked by someone who does not share your opinions.

I just wanted to share my good experiences with the m906, as answer on your bad experiences, what is only fair + interesting to know for anyone interested in purchasing something indeed