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  #1  
Old 11-15-2013, 06:20 PM
Jeffrey Kubiak Jeffrey Kubiak is offline
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Default Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

specs:
iMac i7 3.5
8g RAM
3tb ssd
Apogee duet 2 (correct firmware and install)
Pro Tools 11 (11.0.3) clean install
OS mavericks

Problem:
when i record enable a track it will sound fine but after 20-60 seconds the track will develop a lot of bit'like distortion. The only way to correct it is to change the playback buffer setting and then recording will resume fine.. but temporarily.. then 20-60 seconds later the distortion will return. It does this on any buffer setting (32,64,128,256,512), it doesn't seem to happen on 1044 however its impossible to record on that setting or on 512 because the latency is too difficult to deal with. please help me resolve this i spent over an hour on the phone with Apogee and diagnosed the Duet (doesn't seem to be the problem), and 20min ion the phone with AVID. I've ran the complete checklist on AVIDs website multiple times. PLEASE HELP!!!!
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2013, 05:38 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Question Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Kubiak View Post
specs:
3tb ssd
Is that a Fusion Drive? Is that the drive you are trying to record to?
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:00 PM
Jeffrey Kubiak Jeffrey Kubiak is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

yes i believe it is the fusion drive and I record all my audio to that drive. Is it better to get an external hard drive? and if so is it possible to install pro tools 11 on that drive so i can access and store my music files on the 3tb drive? do you think that will stop all the distortion when record enabled?
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:56 PM
PMF Media PMF Media is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

There's your issue. The "spinning platter" component of the fusion drive only spins at 5400 rpm and the OS determines which portion/components of the system/applications get to "live" on the SSD portion, either way, not a good idea to record to what is essentially your system drive.

so yes, get yourself an external drive and make sure it spins at a minimum of 7200 rpm.
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2013, 05:30 PM
Jeffrey Kubiak Jeffrey Kubiak is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

ok, should i get a thunderbolt hard drive? usb solid state or usb regular? also would it be better to run pro tools off of that external drive vs the sessions and audio files? its weird because my friend has the near exact same set up as me only a macbook pro and an apogee solo and he isn't encountering any of these problems. Apogee says it's not the duet but the duet is weird.. it will literally stop playing from one you tube video to the next, or just stop playing on iTunes and it actually freezes the audio playback on iTunes until its unplugged and plugged back in.
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:09 PM
PMF Media PMF Media is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

Your friends MBP utilises a different internal drive - either SSD or standard "spinning platter" drive rather than the fusion drive. You will definitely need an external record drive - Thunderbolt or USB 3 (either should be fine) i wouldn't bother spending the extra $ on SSD tho as long as the enclosed drive spins at a minimum 7200 rpm.

As for the Apogee a quick way to narrow down the playback issue is to simply change your audio output in your system prefs (System Preferences/Hardware/Sound/Output tab) then select the Internal Speakers and see how that functions - this will also work for PT playback as a test, if everything play back for thru the internal setup, try re-installing the Apogee drivers making sure they are compatible with your OS.

As for where to install and run PT itself... the fusion drive works in tandem with the MacOS and decides which application reside on which portion of the drive (SSD or spinning platter) and will apparently shuffle them according to use, so following that logic, if all you are using the machine for is PT then all "should" be fine. Personally, I'd replace the fusion drive with a dedicated SSD and run you system and all apps from there and store all your audio, photos, music, movies etc on the external drive, using an SSD as you system drive will speed up boot times and generally provide snappier performance and also negates the need to ever defrag or optimise the drive,

Hope this helps.
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:33 PM
Jeffrey Kubiak Jeffrey Kubiak is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

also i looked up the info on my 3tb internal hard drive and thought i would show you, because i really don't know what i'm looking at and wanted to check the rpms of 5400 that you referenced.

APPLE SSD SD0128F:

Capacity: 121.33 GB (121,332,826,112 bytes)
Model: APPLE SSD SD0128F
Revision: A222621
Serial Number: 133676402025
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: Yes
Bay Name: SSD
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
EFI:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
BSD Name: disk0s1
Content: EFI
disk0s2:
Capacity: 120.99 GB (120,988,852,224 bytes)
BSD Name: disk0s2
Content: Apple_CoreStorage
Boot OS X:
Capacity: 134.2 MB (134,217,728 bytes)
BSD Name: disk0s3
Content: Apple_Boot
Volume UUID: 15CA10FA-4743-3ADC-AB7A-C2363576D98F

APPLE HDD ST3000DM001:

Capacity: 3 TB (3,000,592,982,016 bytes)
Model: APPLE HDD ST3000DM001
Revision: AP18
Serial Number: Z1F3PSGR
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk1
Rotational Rate: 7200
Medium Type: Rotational
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
EFI:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
BSD Name: disk1s1
Content: EFI
disk1s2:
Capacity: 3 TB (2,999,733,223,424 bytes)
BSD Name: disk1s2
Content: Apple_CoreStorage
Recovery HD:
Capacity: 650 MB (650,002,432 bytes)
BSD Name: disk1s3
Content: Apple_Boot
Volume UUID: 2615794C-CCAE-3405-A974-AF0E37C92304

I'm not sure if the 3 tb drive shows up as two or is actually split into two drives.. maybe with this info you could advise me more. also i def do NOT get any of the weird sound issues when i change the system preferences to the internal speakers, however i can't tell whether or not i'll get distortion when record enabled in pro tools 11 because there is no way for me to plug in a mic or input to record. I will run pro tools 11 on the iMac built in speakers tonight to see if i get any of the 6101 errors. If its the hard drive internally i should still receive those errors even without the duet attached correct? thanks soooooo much for your help!!!
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2013, 07:15 PM
PMF Media PMF Media is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

I assume you copied that info from the computers system profile (report), seems strange to me that the fusion drive would appear as 2 separate drives rather than the 1 "fusion" drive, what appears an your desktop as the mounted system drive? As I don't have an iMac with a FD I'm not sure of the exact behaviour within the MacOS -= perhaps someone else can chime in here either way here's my idea of an optimal setup for running PT... I ALWAYS partition my internal system drive into 2 or 3 partitions, 1 for all my "Home" type use (Word. Excel, iPhoto, iTunes ect), 1 dedicated "Studio" partition for exclusive PT & Logic Pro use and 1 partition for a "Back Up" of the studio partition (cloned system and Apps) I also run a manual daily back up via Time Machine of everything. Setting up this way enables me to have a studio setup that runs cleanly and efficiently leaving the "Home" partition to handle all the day to day stuff - separate form this, ALL my media (audio, Samples/Loops, photos, videos, downloads etc) are pointed to and live/record to a completely separate 7200 rpm spinning platter drive (internal in my case) thus leaving the System partitions - Home & Studio - unencumbered and free to run the OS and the application (PT, Word, Logic etc), the issue I have with the fusion drive in principal, is that you seemingly have no control over what lives where with the OS taking an educated guess and constantly shuffling data as it sees fit (again, I'll add that I have no first hand experience of fusion drives so I may well be talking out my arse (that's how we say it in Oz) so I'm happy to be corrected) thus my suggestion of replacing the FD with a dedicated SSD which could then be partitioned and a 7200 rpm external drive to house ALL your assets.

As for the Apogee, check that the version of the driver you are using is compatible with the version of the MacOS you're running - this can be an issue.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2013, 09:39 PM
Jeffrey Kubiak Jeffrey Kubiak is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

yea i def updated the duet 2 with the correct driver for mavericks.. even cleaned out all the old files first. I tried to plug in an external usb hard drive tonight and changed the save file path for a new PT11 session to that drive and it gave me a weird "this drive is not set up to record, make sure there is an R.." blah blah blah i forgot the rest but wouldn't allow me to save a new session or any audio off that drive. what you have set up there sounds ideal but i haven't the slightest clue on where to begin with something that complicated. The duet really pisses me off haha, i like its style and features and portability, but i hate that it doesn't work well and that not only do i have to plug and unplug cables but also use the maestro 2 program to change those connections outside of pro tools. They should design the Maestro 2 program to open up like a plug in in a stereo aux track that you could Bus out to other tracks, then you could change it super easy right through pro tools =) its a sharp looking piece of junk though!
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2013, 02:52 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Post Re: Pro tools 11 Record enabled problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMF Media View Post
I assume you copied that info from the computers system profile (report), seems strange to me that the fusion drive would appear as 2 separate drives rather than the 1 "fusion" drive, what appears an your desktop as the mounted system drive? As I don't have an iMac with a FD I'm not sure of the exact behaviour within the MacOS -= perhaps someone else can chime in here
I will chime in here.

A Fusion Drive is two physically different disks. One is your typical spinning disk and the other is an SSD. The two drives are fused together (hence the name) with a virtualization layer that Apple calls Core Storage. The virtualization that Core Storage provides allows for an abstraction of what is really going on with a Fusion Drive. This abstraction is what allows the user and applications to see the Fusion Drive (remember, 2 disks) as a single drive and treat it as such.

Since Core Storage presents the Fusion Drive to Pro Tools (or anything else) as a single drive, the performance benefit of a dedicated SSD is lost. Pro Tools has no way of knowing which portion of the Fusion Drive is the SSD portion. This is why you run into disk speed issues with a Fusion Drive. The probability is high that Pro Tools will try to record to the slower spinning disk portion of the Fusion Drive.

The Mac OS will figure out what data is most often used and move it to the SSD portion. It cannot make Pro Tools use only the SSD portion.

Core Storage is also what makes FDE (full disk encryption) possible with Lion OS and later.

Note that the version of Disk Utility that ships with a Mac that has a Fusion Drive is different from the version of Disk Utility that ships with all other Macs. You must use the version of Disk Utility that came with your Fusion Drive.
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