Why will 192 not work in PT11? What is AAX actually?

[Dolly]

I have a HD2Accel PCIe system with a 192 i/o and Waves Mercury Native.

There are a couple of things that I can't understand or find an answer to:

1. Is there a technical reason why the 192 will not work with future PT11 and beyond? 192 io and HD io 8x8x8x are basically two identical products apart from the PSU and the color.

2. It's stated in the PT 10 page, that there are now two new plug-in formats: AAX Native and AAX DSP. Both formats are said to use the same algorithm, AAX DSP uses the dsp of the HDX card, AAX Native uses the dsp of the host computer. Will plugin manufacturers like Waves charge double for AAX DSP compared to AAX Native, as they did with TDM/RTAS? If so, why? It's the same code.

3. Can AAX Native be used for tracking with minimal latency? If not, what are the benefits compared to the current RTAS? The fact that it will work in a future 64bit PT11? Is that it or is there some other benefits?

Thanks.

[Dolly]

AAX Native seems to act exactly the same as RTAS (bypassed while rec-enabled).

[drumster]

Originally Posted by Dolly

I have a HD2Accel PCIe system with a 192 i/o and Waves Mercury Native.

There are a couple of things that I can't understand or find an answer to:

1. Is there a technical reason why the 192 will not work with future PT11 and beyond? 192 io and HD io 8x8x8x are basically two identical products apart from the PSU and the color.

2. It's stated in the PT 10 page, that there are now two new plug-in formats: AAX Native and AAX DSP. Both formats are said to use the same algorithm, AAX DSP uses the dsp of the HDX card, AAX Native uses the dsp of the host computer. Will plugin manufacturers like Waves charge double for AAX DSP compared to AAX Native, as they did with TDM/RTAS? If so, why? It's the same code.

3. Can AAX Native be used for tracking with minimal latency? If not, what are the benefits compared to the current RTAS? The fact that it will work in a future 64bit PT11? Is that it or is there some other benefits?

Thanks.

1. I think it comes down to the fact that the 192 IO is now considered Legacy and that Avid will no longer be releasing firmware updates for it to allow it to work with future versions of Pro Tools. As someone who used to own the 192 IO, the new generation is far superior and has had quite an overhaul.

2. Apparently, it is the same code but there is an extra investment for plugin manufacturers to develop for the AAX dsp version. This post by Sean Costello who develops the Valhalla Room plugin will explain things better. It's post #14 on this thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/aes-2...ml#post7152022

There is a very good chance the DSP versions will demand a higher cost.

3. The main benefit of AAX is that it is a single unified plugin format which is 64 bit ready. It's no secret that the RTAS engine was flawed and also one of the most difficult for plugin developers to code for out of the major 3.

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by drumster

There is a very good chance the DSP versions will demand a higher cost.

Hopefully it will only be in the 15-20% range instead of the 50+% that TDM was. With AAX, the testing time and hardware are the only differences.

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by Dolly

There are a couple of things that I can't understand or find an answer to:

1. Is there a technical reason why the 192 will not work with future PT11 and beyond? 192 io and HD io 8x8x8x are basically two identical products apart from the PSU and the color.

It's probably a matter of a firmware update at the least. And Avid just isn't interested in putting the resources into doing that. They are a hardware company, they want you to buy new boxes.

As for the 192 and 8x8 being "identical", can you point me to where you got this info?

Thanks.

[drumster]

Originally Posted by dmazurek

Hopefully it will only be in the 15-20% range instead of the 50+% that TDM was. With AAX, the testing time and hardware are the only differences.

It would be nice to think that the manufacturers won't charge significantly more for the DSP version of their plugins. I expect it to be a little bit more, but hopefully not the same way it was between TDM and RTAS. That scenario will make it even more expensive for TDM users to upgrade their systems and get the full functionality of the new card. I'm not sure the same case exists as it did in the TDM days for running mostly RTAS plugs. Quite honestly, if you plan to do that, why bother getting the DSP card at all. Go HD Native and save yourself thousands of dollars.

[ledogboy]

Originally Posted by dmazurek

It's probably a matter of a firmware update at the least. And Avid just isn't interested in putting the resources into doing that. They are a hardware company, they want you to buy new boxes.

Shouldn't selling us the damn card be enough at this point?

I want to record a session at 24/88.2. I have a multiple boxes sitting next to me that are capable of converting analog signal into digital. They were manufactured by Avid. So why the hell can't I use them until they break? I am fine with Avid discontinuing support for the devices themselves, but not allowing us to use them with the new system seems like another example of deliberately crippling the platform to try to boost profits.

Add that to the absurd software upgrade cost, the money I sank into a PCI-E crossgrade for my B room six months ago, and I have pretty much had it with this damn company.

[Firechild]

First of all I have to say that AVID is doing a good job to bring things forward. It was just a matter of time before they HAD to drop TDM.
On the other hand.
There is absolutely no reason at all why they should drop support for digi192 as long as the AVID I/O units are supported as they are VERY similar in firmware.
There is a guy here on DUC that has his new AVID I/O 8x8x8 reported as a Digi 192 in Pro Tools ! His second 8x8x8 is reported correctly.

BUT...
AVID is doing all digi192 users a favour actually...they sound terrible. always has and always will. I upgraded to 8x8x8. Night and day,period.

But, the reason AVID is doing so is of course to push the sales.

[drumster]

Originally Posted by Firechild

BUT...
AVID is doing all digi192 users a favour actually...they sound terrible. always has and always will. I upgraded to 8x8x8. Night and day,period.

I'll second that! I don't miss my 192 IO for a second now that I have the HD IO. Everything sounds better through the new converters. As painful as the cost may seem to some right now, I'm sure after they made the switch they'd forget all about the 192 IO.