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  #11  
Old 10-08-2010, 09:00 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

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Originally Posted by gtomassetti View Post
Brad:

I'm interested in HD Native over true HD mainly for the cost basis. As much as I would love to have an HD2 or 3 system, if I'm being truthful with myself, those systems are a little too expensive — and quite a bit of overkill — for the kind of work I do. Even though I found reasonably priced new-in-box HD2 cards on eBay, the cost of those plus one of the HD hardware boxes would be close to $10k.

Conversely, the HD Native card plus the Omni interface is being offered at Sweetwater for just under $6k, and for a little project studio like mine, I can see spending that.

I know that TDM offers much more DSP power than RTAS, but in truth, despite the number of plugins I own, I really don't use that much processing, as I mainly work in classical music. And I've found that judiciously applied processing has never yet overwhelmed my computer, whether in PT, Logic, Peak Pro, or WaveBurner. (Having an outboard FW Liquid Mix and a PCIe Duende helps, too.)

So, if I would be doing big types of sessions where I'd really need a great deal of processing power, true HD would definitely make sense. It seems to me that HD Native offers a reasonable middle ground.

If I ever won the lottery, though…

I live in Southington, about a half-hour southwest of Hartford. New London, eh? Caruso Music, by any chance? I was never a customer there, as it was kind of a long drive, but I know it by reputation. In fact, I'm an adjunct professor at the Hartt School of the University of Hartford, teaching Finale and notation to comp students (even the ones who use Sibelius), and one of my current students teaches guitar there. I used to do all of my shopping at LaSalle Music back in the early 90's, when I was really in to multi-tracking with my Fostex R-8.

Best,

Gary
Gary, look at many of my post around here, you can have an HD2 PCIe tomorrow for less than 4200.00.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2010, 09:33 PM
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gtomassetti gtomassetti is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

But what about the interface? The Omni is really the only one that would be practical for my little project studio, and Sweetwater is showing that for just under $3k. So that plus the $4200 for the HD2 cards would still be quite a bit more than I had expected to spend for the HD Native card + the Omni ($5995).

Also, to upgrade my Waves Diamond Bundle and McDSP Emerald Pack from Native to TDM would be pretty darned expensive, even with Wave's current price drop…
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Last edited by gtomassetti; 10-08-2010 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Add a bit of info.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2010, 07:24 AM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

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Originally Posted by gtomassetti View Post
But what about the interface? The Omni is really the only one that would be practical for my little project studio, and Sweetwater is showing that for just under $3k. So that plus the $4200 for the HD2 cards would still be quite a bit more than I had expected to spend for the HD Native card + the Omni ($5995).

Also, to upgrade my Waves Diamond Bundle and McDSP Emerald Pack from Native to TDM would be pretty darned expensive, even with Wave's current price drop…
Buy a:

Lynx Aurora 8 used 1500.00
Rosetta 200 used 1200.00
Digi 192 I/O used 1600.00
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2010, 09:34 AM
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gtomassetti gtomassetti is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

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Originally Posted by Barry Johns View Post
Buy a:

Lynx Aurora 8 used 1500.00
Rosetta 200 used 1200.00
Digi 192 I/O used 1600.00
For me, the only problem with all those pieces of gear is the connectivity. Given the simplicity of my setup, and the fact that monitoring for a group of people is not something I have to worry about, I need a piece of hardware that will just give me a pair of TRS outs so I can hear what I'm working on. My 003R is great for this, and the Omni fits the bill as well. To my mind, DB-25 connections and the like imply a much more sophisticated setup, with patch bays and whatever else, and that's really way beyond what I need.

Even if I did decide to go HD2 from eBay and just get a Pro Tools HD interface, I'm pretty sure I'd still go with the Omni.
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Home: Mac Pro (2x2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Westmere", 32 GB RAM; 10.10.5; boot drive 960 GB Mercury Accelsior_E2 PCIe card), OMNI, MH ULN-2, MOTU 8pre
PT HDN 12.6; REAPER 5+ (32 & 64-bit); PreSonus Studio One 3 Pro, Central Station Plus, and FaderPort
WAY too many plugins and VIs; WaveLab 8.5; Sound Forge Pro
Finale 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2010, 01:04 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtomassetti View Post
For me, the only problem with all those pieces of gear is the connectivity. Given the simplicity of my setup, and the fact that monitoring for a group of people is not something I have to worry about, I need a piece of hardware that will just give me a pair of TRS outs so I can hear what I'm working on. My 003R is great for this, and the Omni fits the bill as well. To my mind, DB-25 connections and the like imply a much more sophisticated setup, with patch bays and whatever else, and that's really way beyond what I need.

Even if I did decide to go HD2 from eBay and just get a Pro Tools HD interface, I'm pretty sure I'd still go with the Omni.
All of the pieces mentioned are as easy to connect as anything you've ever used before, a cable is a cable, no patchbays required!
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2010, 03:21 PM
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gtomassetti gtomassetti is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

All I really need for an output is an analog stereo pair that I can plug into my Presonus Central Station, which I use to 1) select the input from either my MOTU and 003R, depending on what I'm doing at the moment; and 2) A-B between my Focal and JBL monitors. The Omni has that; the others don't seem to, although I could certainly be missing something…
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2010, 05:15 PM
25ghosts 25ghosts is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtomassetti View Post
For me, the only problem with all those pieces of gear is the connectivity. Given the simplicity of my setup, and the fact that monitoring for a group of people is not something I have to worry about, I need a piece of hardware that will just give me a pair of TRS outs so I can hear what I'm working on. My 003R is great for this, and the Omni fits the bill as well. To my mind, DB-25 connections and the like imply a much more sophisticated setup, with patch bays and whatever else, and that's really way beyond what I need.

Even if I did decide to go HD2 from eBay and just get a Pro Tools HD interface, I'm pretty sure I'd still go with the Omni.
I dont want to take sales from their new HD Native but in book,

Before shelling out $5 grand for an HD native system running PT HD without TDM, I would have to kick my own azz.

Why would i wanna loose the ability of hardware handling all my track counts and inserting TDM plugs. And on top of all that I could use RTAS additionally. If PT HD Native would be $2GRand, I'd get immediately. But it aint.
My current HD System is 8 years old and as good as new and I would not think twice about buying a used system. You can get a core system for about 3 Grand which is less than a brand new HD Native.

Between a TDM System costing $5k and an HD Native costing the same. THere is NO choice. NONE.
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2010, 06:58 PM
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gtomassetti gtomassetti is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

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Originally Posted by 25ghosts View Post
Between a TDM System costing $5k and an HD Native costing the same. THere is NO choice. NONE.
I have no doubt that this is true for a lot of people, and I think that's a totally valid viewpoint. It just happens that my own needs are not for that sort of power.
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2010, 08:47 PM
ddwhitney ddwhitney is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

HD Native doesn't sound like it's what you need. It offers absolutely no processing relief unless you have outboard gear as inserts on some other preamp like the HD/192 I/O or a mixer like the Venue, Icon Etc....(hardware inserts)

HD Native is an "Advanced Music and Post-Production Core System", I think people are thinking it more than what it really is. Do you need 192 tracks and 128 bus' that have no TDM ability? It does bug me that the claim is made that it's "lowest latency and highest stability of any native system" when the latency is tied to hardware inserts and not software ones.

I don't know if by classical you mean, composing or tracking. If your tracking orchestras then HD TDM is your only real AVID solution, if LE has been working why change? You'll still have to rely on your RTAS plugs. If your using a lot of VI plugs, HD Native won't do anything really.

If I were you.... I would wait to see what happens with LE in November before spending anything unless you take Barry's advice and go full HD TDM. From what I've seen thusfar, new LE hardware will more than likely be getting onboard DSP for reverb and delay to help the monitoring latency issues, RTAS isn't exactly real time for some plugs...

If $4000 is tough to come by, you don't want to spend it until all the cards are on the table..
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  #20  
Old 10-10-2010, 08:54 AM
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gtomassetti gtomassetti is offline
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Default Re: Upgrading to HD Native from LE

You may be right. It would probably be wisest for me to wait for a while and see what comes down the pike and then make a decision.

Actually, what I crave more than anything else is stability. I still get the occasional "Pro Tools cannot communicate with 003" message. Not nearly as often as I used to, but it's still something that is always lurking at the back of my mind.

Either HD Native or true HD would, I suspect, solve that one once and for all.
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PT HDN 12.6; REAPER 5+ (32 & 64-bit); PreSonus Studio One 3 Pro, Central Station Plus, and FaderPort
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