Free mix workshop...

[amagras]

Originally Posted by simon.a.billington

I noticed a kind of modest beauty in Dave's ability to work with a small number of plugins. In an unrelated subject a friend of mine posted this on Facebook a few days back.



https://www.researchgate.net/publica...3aoL9Fz6aeANqM



I haven't read it, but this is how he summed it up. In fact, it may even be a quoted extract...



"In a nutshell, surprisingly the fewer plugins an engineer used the better the mix tended to get rated and the best mix used primarily stock plugins, whereas the lower performing mixes were overloaded with plugins"



I think this is relevant as it reflect's Dave's approach and the approach of a few other engineers. I guess it helps to start with good recordings and good arrangements. As a mix engineer you aren't always so lucky.



Although as somebody who also writes and arranges, the line between the arrangement and the mix can become a bit blurred.

I agree. As a guy who mixes his own music I have to fight really hard not to start mixing during the recording process or even the composition, this is easier said than done when you do everything with amp sims and VIs. Whenever I'm strong enough to wait until the song is done I find that after proper editing and balancing most tracks don't need any plugins (not even HPF sometimes) and the ones that need like vocals which I record through a 57 and a USB interface usually get away with 2 or 3 plugs. I'm also tending more and more to mix in the groups as opposed to mixing in the separate tracks, I find it sounds better and usually need even less plugins...but as I said, it's hard

[xrekcor]

Originally Posted by simon.a.billington

I noticed a kind of modest beauty in Dave's ability to work with a small number of plugins. In an unrelated subject a friend of mine posted this on Facebook a few days back.


https://www.researchgate.net/publica...3aoL9Fz6aeANqM

I haven't read it, but this is how he summed it up. In fact, it may even be a quoted extract...

"In a nutshell, surprisingly the fewer plugins an engineer used the better the mix tended to get rated and the best mix used primarily stock plugins, whereas the lower performing mixes were overloaded with plugins"

I think this is relevant as it reflect's Dave's approach and the approach of a few other engineers. I guess it helps to start with good recordings and good arrangements. As a mix engineer you aren't always so lucky.

Although as somebody who also writes and arranges, the line between the arrangement and the mix can become a bit blurred.

that looks like an interesting read.... thanks for posting.

yeah I picked up on that too..... seasoning a soup with dusting of this and that go back and taste test... see how it sits with the other flavours. he certainly has an easy going nature and can translate what he's doing in a clear understanding. Even though I'm new to the master end of the process.... nothing Dave did/does in this course did I find confusing. I'm going to go through it again and take notes this time round. I didn't download the session files only because I wouldn't have all the particular plugs that he used, but maybe I could swap out with something I already have.

For a while there I was looking for good guitar plugs to try an recreate the sound coming out of my amp into PT.... I found this impossible until I started using more than one mic actually three for guitar and 2 for bass guitar and experimenting with placement, now I think I would only use plug-ins if I needed to re-amp a dry signal. Although I did buy the CLA Guitars plug because I liked what Dave did with it on an acoustic guitar section. I have three sessions with acoustic guitar on them that I'm currently working on that plug is working a treat.... but then I feel a lil guilty cheating because I have been mucking around with mic placement and it hasn't been as successful, so will persevere..... maybe run a snake down to the bathroom mic up in there.

I cant seem to post on Waves even though I'm logged in so I personally sent a thank you email to Dave himself he sent back a reply this morning he is hoping Waves will put together some more of these short courses. Dave seems like a fella really willing to pass on knowledge.... like the folks on here willing to spend their time enlightening and helping us less knowledgeable. Especially in world where it seems everyone is out for themselves

Peace.

[simon.a.billington]

Originally Posted by amagras

I agree. As a guy who mixes his own music I have to fight really hard not to start mixing during the recording process or even the composition, this is easier said than done when you do everything with amp sims and VIs. Whenever I'm strong enough to wait until the song is done I find that after proper editing and balancing most tracks don't need any plugins (not even HPF sometimes) and the ones that need like vocals which I record through a 57 and a USB interface usually get away with 2 or 3 plugs. I'm also tending more and more to mix in the groups as opposed to mixing in the separate tracks, I find it sounds better and usually need even less plugins...but as I said, it's hard

Unfortunately, I don't have the same self control when it comes to plugins, but I think we should keep context in mind when talking about minimalism in mixing.

Now I could be wrong, and I'll certainly be putting myself to the test over the next few months, but I'm presently with the mind that instead of doing more with less plugins, the "alternative" approach to this is to do less with more plugins.

So for example, instead of slamming a bass guitar with a single compressor we could potentially achieve the same, yet smoother results, by processing it a little bit with a Bass Rider, a little bit with a regular compressor and maybe a little bit with the low band of a multiband compressor. Effectively doing the same amount of compression you would with one plugin, but spreading the load so you're demanding less from your processors.

So it's still minimalistic approach, in a way, just applied with a different strategy. I've heard people do this before and some legendary mixers talk about doing things this way too, I just don't recall who. Anyway, its a philosophy I plan to explore over the next few months, but still keeping minimalism in mind. So if I feel something becomes redundant, I won't hesitate too much to drop it altogether.

[simon.a.billington]

Originally Posted by xrekcor

that looks like an interesting read.... thanks for posting.

yeah I picked up on that too..... seasoning a soup with dusting of this and that go back and taste test... see how it sits with the other flavours. he certainly has an easy going nature and can translate what he's doing in a clear understanding. Even though I'm new to the master end of the process.... nothing Dave did/does in this course did I find confusing. I'm going to go through it again and take notes this time round. I didn't download the session files only because I wouldn't have all the particular plugs that he used, but maybe I could swap out with something I already have.

For a while there I was looking for good guitar plugs to try an recreate the sound coming out of my amp into PT.... I found this impossible until I started using more than one mic actually three for guitar and 2 for bass guitar and experimenting with placement, now I think I would only use plug-ins if I needed to re-amp a dry signal. Although I did buy the CLA Guitars plug because I liked what Dave did with it on an acoustic guitar section. I have three sessions with acoustic guitar on them that I'm currently working on that plug is working a treat.... but then I feel a lil guilty cheating because I have been mucking around with mic placement and it hasn't been as successful, so will persevere..... maybe run a snake down to the bathroom mic up in there.

I cant seem to post on Waves even though I'm logged in so I personally sent a thank you email to Dave himself he sent back a reply this morning he is hoping Waves will put together some more of these short courses. Dave seems like a fella really willing to pass on knowledge.... like the folks on here willing to spend their time enlightening and helping us less knowledgeable. Especially in world where it seems everyone is out for themselves

Peace.

I certainly hope he does more.

Personally, I'd like to see him cover more difficult mixes, certainly ones where he has to perform a few "rescue" operations. It's fair enough to employ a minimalist approach to well recorded arrangements, but what about terribly recorded ones. You know, the kind that can't really be recorded again.

No one really covers this kind of thing much, possibly because they don't want to "look bad". But I believe Dave is humble enough to share some expertise with us on this matter too.

[amagras]

Originally Posted by simon.a.billington

Unfortunately, I don't have the same self control when it comes to plugins, but I think we should keep context in mind when talking about minimalism in mixing.

Now I could be wrong, and I'll certainly be putting myself to the test over the next few months, but I'm presently with the mind that instead of doing more with less plugins, the "alternative" approach to this is to do less with more plugins.

So for example, instead of slamming a bass guitar with a single compressor we could potentially achieve the same, yet smoother results, by processing it a little bit with a Bass Rider, a little bit with a regular compressor and maybe a little bit with the low band of a multiband compressor. Effectively doing the same amount of compression you would with one plugin, but spreading the load so you're demanding less from your processors.

So it's still minimalistic approach, in a way, just applied with a different strategy. I've heard people do this before and some legendary mixers talk about doing things this way too, I just don't recall who. Anyway, its a philosophy I plan to explore over the next few months, but still keeping minimalism in mind. So if I feel something becomes redundant, I won't hesitate too much to drop it altogether.

I wasn't talking about doing more with less plugins. Like you I hear better results when I use several and more subtle changes on the program. My point is about my perspective as a mixer, when I start mixing without waiting for the complete arrangement and edition to be done I end up adding more plugin and processing than required almost all the time ending up with a product that's way overcooked. That of course is because I mix my own music. When I get a session from another producer i can hear exactly what the song needs which is usually not much.

[arkit]

Great website, signed up too, thanks for sharing

[simon.a.billington]

Originally Posted by amagras

I wasn't talking about doing more with less plugins. Like you I hear better results when I use several and more subtle changes on the program. My point is about my perspective as a mixer, when I start mixing without waiting for the complete arrangement and edition to be done I end up adding more plugin and processing than required almost all the time ending up with a product that's way overcooked. That of course is because I mix my own music. When I get a session from another producer i can hear exactly what the song needs which is usually not much.

Yeah I hear you. I write, arrange, mix and produce my own stuff. Personally I’m not interested in someone else’s interpretation as it is undoubtedly different to my vision.

I am also my own worst critic. So I don’t really let myself get away with anything “inferior” sounding.

Originally Posted by arkit

Great website, signed up too, thanks for sharing

No probs man. Hopefully they will do more. I want to see him work with less than ideal recordings, for example.