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#1
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True-peak limiters.
I'm mixing for television and film festivals. I read the entire ATSC/85 document. I understand all the relevant bits, and I was pretty excited about buying the Nugen ISL limiter w/ true-peak functionality, and I'm demo'ing the Avid Pro Limiter, also w/ true-peak functionality.
In a nutshell, neither of these plug-ins sound very different from my other good limiters, but they take up A LOT of Native CPU power, especially when I have to use 3 or 4 in a surround re-recording mix. In an HD TV mix, you would only occasionally hit the limiter, so I'm finding it much more convenient to just use my old workhorses, the L2 and the L360, which are super-efficient, set them to -3db, and then watch the WLM meter. I usually score under the ATSC spec, and it's all good. What is happening under the hood that makes these true-peak limiters use so much CPU power?
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Nathaniel Reichman Producer/Re-recording Mixer - New York Nathaniel Reichman | IMDB | LinkedIn |
#2
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Re: True-peak limiters.
I'm posting my listening notes below, because the sound quality is not that relevant to audio post compared to old-fashioned music mixes where the limiter is a huge concern:
I spent 25 minutes listening to an uncompressed pop song and heard this when I slammed the song 12-14db: L1: famous crunchy graininess. Sounds like the 90s. L2: lower distortion, better bass, bigger soundstage, less grain. Nugen ISL: sounds like the L1. Maybe a little better, but it ain't the L2. Avid Pro Limiter: Sounded like the L2, but with a really weird release. Turned OFF auto-release, fiddled, and got it to sound just a little better than the L2, but in a blind test, I would likely fail. Character is cool, but not for me. L3: astonishingly low distortion, but spectral rebalancing occurs. This is obviously a MUCH better limiter than all the rest, but it's unfair to compare since it's multiband...
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Nathaniel Reichman Producer/Re-recording Mixer - New York Nathaniel Reichman | IMDB | LinkedIn |
#3
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True-peak limiters.
Upsampling in order to reconstruct the intersample (analog waveform - hence true peak) value. Same goes for those meters.
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Can you please send yourself over fiber to go spam some other forum? Darryl Ramm |
#4
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Re: True-peak limiters.
Nathaniel, have you tried the L3LL? It's become my favorite, and has a sound different from the others, and the L3LL Multi version sounds even better than the regular L3LL.
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#5
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Re: True-peak limiters.
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The TP limiters are substantially more convenient than using old favourites like the L2/L3 etc. Although setting a standard limiter a dB or two lower than the TP limit will often keep you within the TP spec, this is not always the case, depending on what you are mixing and how you are mixing it. Loud sounds with quite a bit of high frequency content may need you to set your standard limiter considerably lower than a dB below the TP limit to stay within spec. This means you are either applying more limiting than you need for the rest of your mix (which might affect your integrated loudness reading) or you could automate your standard limiter's output ceiling for these occasions but that takes time, might not sound quite right and is not at all convenient compared to a TP limiter which is essentially "set and forget". G |
#6
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Re: True-peak limiters.
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I found the ISL the most transparent limiter for post (film) work. This is my favourite limiter so far followed by the L2007. But L1 and L2 and even L3? Well, maybe for a very specific music file its fine, but I never found it clean enough for post. Either had good results with ML4000. But then again, I never slam it even for my TV works.
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Michael Goorevich Sound Designer / mixer www.goorevich.com PT HD⎪N v2024.3 Ultimate ● macOS Ventura 13.6.3 MacPro 7.1 (2019) 3.2GHz Intel Xeon W 16-Core ● 96 GB RAM MTRX Studio + DADman 5.7.0.1 + MOM ● Sync HD ● AJA Kona LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24 |
#7
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Re: True-peak limiters.
I have the ISL, Waves, and most other common limiters/compressors, but, since I work in film and need top quality, I am buying the new CEDAR studio (part of the new line for Pro-Tools Mac). I know is about 5K but in my line of work, it is totally worth it.
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#8
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True-peak limiters.
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Can you please send yourself over fiber to go spam some other forum? Darryl Ramm |
#9
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Re: True-peak limiters.
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best, rich
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http://www.richbreen.com ---------------------------------------- Mac Studio / Ventura, PT 2023.12.HDX, Avid HD I/Os and Metric Halo ULN8, 3xS1/Dock Also running a Mac Studio Ultra / Ventura / HDX / MTRX / S6 |
#10
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Re: True-peak limiters.
Thanks for the responses everyone! Greg, I'll keep my eye on the TP meter in the Waves WLM and report back after I mix more.
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Nathaniel Reichman Producer/Re-recording Mixer - New York Nathaniel Reichman | IMDB | LinkedIn |
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