Well, it's finally happening.....

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

It's basically the same HD system without the TDM elements. What you pay for on those cards is TDM chips. Why the Native Core card is so much, I can't figure.

003+CPTK = Approx. $3000

18 I/O. 128 tracks. 128 busses. LE features.

Native Core = Approx $3000

64 I/O. 192 tracks. 128 busses. Full HD features minus TDM. ICON support. Full line connectivity with HD interfaces.

HD1 Core/Accel = Approx $7000

32 I/O. 96 tracks. 128 busses. Complete HD features with DSP and TDM. ICON support. Full line connectivity with HD interfaces.

[airon]

Originally Posted by Dism

003+CPTK = Approx. $3000

18 I/O. 128 tracks. 32 busses. LE features.

Make that 128 busses with the CPTK. It's the ONLY reason most shops here bought it. The second reason was surround panning and tracks.

Native Core = Approx $3000

64 I/O. 192 tracks. 128 busses. Full HD features minus TDM. ICON support. Full line connectivity with HD interfaces.

That's $3500 + an HD Omni at the smallest level. Sweetwater lists that combo for $6000. Without an interface, you've got what RME HDSP PCIe users have for $350 : a card that needs an interface. $350. I looked that stuff up to make sure. The RME interfaces have DSP as well for monitoring, but then again you have to position such a system somewhere, and it does have two of those Digilinks and needs to stay compatible to existing interfaces.

HD1 Core/Accel = Approx $7000
32 I/O. 96 tracks. 128 busses. Complete HD features with DSP and TDM. ICON support. Full line connectivity with HD interfaces.

There are offers of $3000 or less for an HD Core system about. PCI versions are even cheaper if you can find a computer for it.

TDM plugin in the monitoring path, at 1.5 ms IIRC, that's the only advantage.

I'm pretty sure the LE users are going to ask themselves whether or not $50 programs that have automatic delay compensation aren't the better choice in the coming days.

I'm happy this has finally happened. I can see post shops adopting these rigs in place of bulky slow old DSP-HD systems. Convenient, compatible, cheaper they are, though not inexpensive compared to everyone else. It is inexpensive compared to their own old hardware only.

These guys are playing catchup everywhere except for the post community. Good first step.

[Dism]

Originally Posted by airon

pretty sure the LE users are going to ask themselves whether or not $50 programs that have automatic delay compensation aren't the better choice in the coming days.

The thing is... you still need hardware.

This my point.

While there are cheaper solutions... are they better? Just because they have ADC? Aside from that, Avid is claiming all their new hardware is designed to work well with other DAWs.

If you want to run a similar Apogee setup... we're looking at roughly the same price. I will admit RME has some pretty affordable solutions, but none of them are as flexible as this new HD card. You can certainly save some $$$ if you know exactly what you need... but the bundled Studio One certainly ain't Pro Tools, and I'm still not sold on Reaper.

Either way... I still stand by my ultimate point:

Wait for November.

[airon]

Yeah, for me it's the software.

As I've stated elsewhere already, this is old software when it comes to the functionality we're expecting from a new version of Protools.

The hardware is fine if you want to pay for it. They've copied the Totalmix concept of RME nicely, so they're on par there. Let's hope november or whenever brings us the release or glimpse of the most neglected part of our setup, the software.

[Picture Start]

Originally Posted by Dism

Native Core = Approx $3000

64 I/O. 192 tracks. 128 busses. Full HD features minus TDM. ICON support. Full line connectivity with HD interfaces.

HD1 Core/Accel = Approx $7000

32 I/O. 96 tracks. 128 busses. Complete HD features with DSP and TDM. ICON support. Full line connectivity with HD interfaces.

The card itself is meaningless on its own. If that card actually had a lightpipe out or something built-in, it wouldn't seem so silly. Yes it's a lot cheaper than an HD1. It's a card that is simply a conduit between (required) expensive audio interfaces and a computer and therefore isn't worth much on its own... since it doesn't make sound!

I admit, it facilitates low latency monitoring, etc, so it's not completely stupid. What bugs me is not the price of admission, but the willful paucity of features the card provides on its own.

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

The card itself is meaningless on its own. If that card actually had a lightpipe out or something built-in, it wouldn't seem so silly. Yes it's a lot cheaper than an HD1. It's a card that is simply a conduit between (required) expensive audio interfaces and a computer and therefore isn't worth much on its own... since it doesn't make sound!

I admit, it facilitates low latency monitoring, etc, so it's not completely stupid. What bugs me is not the price of admission, but the willful paucity of features the card provides on its own.

It facilitates connectivity to devices that nothing else can. It's going to be a premium for a connection to an ICON. But...it's by far the most inexpensive solution to do so, and it's more capable than HD1 at half the price.

All I'm saying is that I don't think this is the only solution we will see for HD Native.

I see a trend with how Avid has been releasing products. They aren't done with us, yet. Just wait.

[TLarvenz]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

It's basically the same HD system without the TDM elements. What you pay for on those cards is TDM chips. Why the Native Core card is so much, I can't figure.

Not true. The chips were $30 each in 1996. And that is a single chip price, not bulk buys as Digidesign would have done. The markup even on the Core and process cards is extraordinary. Anyway, I doubt there's more than $50 worth of parts on the new card. Certainly more tech on a $200 graphics card than on this one. You're paying the price to play with ProTools. Sorry, but this is just a glorified version of LE that allows high end interfaces. I can't believe they didn't write a 56000 emulator to allow us to use our TDM plugs with the new system that they tout as HD. I'm not going to plunk down $3k+ to "upgrade" my HD3 to a system that gets rid of all my TDM plug-ins and won't monitor low latency with FX. And I'd like to point out that the only plug ins that have given me trouble in my 16 years using ProTools have been RTAS. Never issues with TDM. Even today you can peruse the board and see that nearly all plug in issues stem from RTAS. I want to upgrade. I've got the money to upgrade. But this isn't a viable upgrade for me if it won't run TDM plugs. I've got Phoenix on every single session I've done for years. There's nothing that sounds as good to me at this point that would be a good RTAS alternative. Maybe HEAT sounds as good but it's TDM and won't work on the new stuff either. There's clearly another higher end version coming out but this isn't it. Nice intermediate step but not the good stuff. I'm not whining. I'm pointing out that this is not the upgrade that the HD crowd has been waiting for. Definitely the one that the LE users wanted. But it shouldn't have been called HD if it defeatured the software and relies on the weakest plug in architecture that most will agree is in dire need of an update. Maybe the top end gear will be released at AES?

[dr sound]

And how many clients sit behind you watching you work saying "We'll I've got a sound card that can do ....and this guy is charging me x"$'s an hour to push faders"? There is a lot more than meets the eye in BOTH your business and Avid's. To make a simplistic statement of "$50 of parts" is a joke. People here bitched about "gotta have native" and now they bitch more... It's too much money....
It sounds like Producers asking what your rate is then whining about it.
Get over it, it's the price of doing business. 80% of the people on the DUC wouldn't be able to have a studio or a place to mix 12 years ago and now they bitch about $3000 's!
ENOUGH!!!

[TLarvenz]

Maybe you should read the post. The point of $50 remark is that it's not about the technology on the card but rather the price of doing business with protools.
Get a grip.

[Pirate Post]

Originally Posted by TLarvenz

Maybe you should read the post. The point of $50 remark is that it's not about the technology on the card but rather the price of doing business with protools.
Get a grip.

The price of doing business with Pro Tools?

Rough calculation...for about $15k you could get a pro tools system with 192 voices, a great interface, Mac and a Waves Mercury Bundle. Wouldn't take long to make that money back unless your giving your giving your services away. I'm having trouble understanding why everyone is bitching. Pro Tools is not Logic. If you don't want to pay to play, then have fun with Logic and FinalCutPro.