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  #1  
Old 10-10-2010, 07:09 AM
digidesigner digidesigner is offline
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Default About good Venue development ideas and how they can drown in Ideascale

I think this type of discussion is necessary here, not on ideascale only.

I absolutely understand that you guys mainly located in the US have been using Venues for many years, some prabably from day one are used to it like it is and are in the situation where you would like to have no changes and just keep working on your systems, maybe just want to get 32 auxes and be happy:) You dominate Ideascale as mostly only your votes count as people not yet users or newbies will not generally participate.

I am a person working closely with a reseller of Venue systems in a far away land where Venues have not established a solid fan base and they need to compete with the other systems that are used my many every day.

When new people are introduced to the system they mostly are positively interested and in my situation I am able to see the first reactions and get in information and reactions about the consoles that could be useful for developers of Venue. For example mobile phone manufacturers make their test team to report back first time in about an hour after getting in the new phones, so they can have the first impressions and information how intuitive the tool is, then again in 24 hours when users have had more time to go deeper etc. etc.
Since Avid prices have gone up nearly 30% in EU this year features play bigger and bigger role when someone tries to rationalize a purchase of the Venue system and even a small stupid thing can ruin a sale (take a no separate L-R 31 band tweaking of master EQ!)

So IMHO the ideascale thing, although great idea in general, is not promoting the best ideas that could develop the console and help the system to be more easily adopted by new customers currently heavily using boards of other manufacturers, mainly worldwide market leading Yamahas. I'm afraid that is because a big old Venue userbase in US will just not support them ideas and the ideas will be left buried in there.

I stress out, that suggestions I'm going to make or point out, should be mostly if and when implemented done strictly thru adding options, a tick boxes in preferences, so respectfully, all the old users that are happy about the things the way they are can keep on working just like they have been doing it so far.

Right now these ideas IMHO need more attention:

1. Easier/auto save of show file option

This has been now discussed in this thread so the idea is known: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=283320

2. Auto include plugins in snapshots option

We often do a very complicated shows and we have to be very very fast when dialing in settings and saving the snapshots. Errors can happen that are fatal to the show, please let me explain:

Big gala event, big stars on stage, every song gets rehearsed only once. I have to mix 50-60 channels or even more channels that include a regular band, an orchestra, number of backing vocals (that often change), number of guest instrumental artists, plus all the lead vocal artists change from number to number. There will be around 25 or more numbers/songs total. So there will be heavy usage of plugins and most of the stuff gets changed very much. As the plugin window is small in Snapshots window and it is only human that works on the system and who is under heavy pressure to get everything set up right in these 3-4 minutes available per song, then it can happen, that you forget to go in and "add all plugins" to the snapshot. This means when you forget to do so and move forward and create another and another snapshot THERE IS NO WAY TO GET YOUR SOUND BACK on the snapshot you forgot to add the plugins to, as going into History will NOT help you now as even if you figure out the exact minute you had your snapshot right (you won't) you will loose all the other stuff you did after that. To make things worse, sometimes you even notice it only as late as during the show when you recall your snapshot without plugins recalling their correct settings. In this scenario it is a disaster! Disaster that could be avoided by adding a preference.

3. Better Snapshot management (groups for snapshots etc)

There are ideas about this at ideascale that get very little support for this important general idea. When having number of snapshots for a song and many songs total it is very easy when moving songs around according to playlists to miss some snapshots. IMHO this should be looked at as there could be added groups or at least ability to color code snapshots etc.
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/22244-5162
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/27235-5162
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/20888-5162

4. View follows selection option

This is especially important to me.
It drives me nuts that view does not follow what I'm doing on the desk and slows me down by foring me to click buttons that could be avoided. When I select an input channel, view should instantly change to Input view mode (only NOT then when I was in Plugins view mode and selected channel has a plug). And then if I select an compressor or gate or EQ (eq on SC48 only) the little screen in there should instantly follow, not only then when I move controllers.
Important is that when I move the controllers of EQ it would be really helpful if big EQ view would pop up showing me precise information about the EQ curve. This popup would then go away in about one second after I stop tweaking the EQ (not instantly to avoid flickering when just moving your hand to another controller of EQ). This is very important cause most of the times I have no idea of the frequency or the gain numbers I'm working on cause when there are 2 messages down there on the screen I cannot see the changing value number. I always mix in the spill mode, so one message is always there, and that is why it is easy for me to have two messages blocking the info view when another message comes up (down:)).
related: http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/17366-5162

5. Unlink LR 31band EQ's option

This is a must. Looking stupid every time I need to answer NO when asked if this is possible.
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/24881-5162

6. Spill cancels problem when selecting master

This again is important to me. I mix in spill, and always when I select the master fader just to check the master plugin the spill will get canceled and I loose control.

7. Plugins direct access with F keys or another clever way

We need to have access to critical plugins or couple of them as fast as possible. Yamaha's can have assigned page or view directly to a function key. I think we could enjoy the same option. Pushing an F key would instantly bring out an important plugin or important view. This is also a very good idea: http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/23773-5162

8. More F keys thru Modifier keys

Something in the lines of this idea: http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/23784-5162
Profile and SC48 is better in that regard but D-Show has only 4 F keys. I believe it would be possible to simply add F keys that could be used with modifiers like Shift etc. We still have the magic User key unused!

9. Link channel gain and aux sends option

Not my idea but great! http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/22321-5162
This would be great to remain constant monitor mixes and FX feeds when fixing gain leves. Would enable many of us FOH guys to run monitors from FOH with greater peace of mind and lower overall cost to artist by dropping monitor desks in some cases.


10. High contrast mode for direct sunlight (like Smaart)

It was my first summer out in the sun and I had some bad experiences how difficult the screen and the leds on the console are to see in direct sunlight. There isn't much to do regarding leds already used on the console, but I believe it would be possible to add high-contrast mode, something like Smaart program has.
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/25965-5162

11. Plug-in instantiation priority list

Not my idea, but one of the very important ones IMHO: http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/23186-5162

12. Better design, control and feel of the rotary encoders and knobs

In the ideal world I would like to see stepped encoders, so I know one click is one db and in fine mode 0.1db This would be much more proffesional. The big buttons design of Venue makes it almost impossible to see looking at the controller where your settings are as the button blocks your view if cut and boost is some db's on the + or - side
Something to consider for new releases.
See this too: http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/18504-5162
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/26024-5162

13. An option to use SC48 as a recording front end for more than 18 inputs.

SC48 is a serious and expensive tool with some great preamps. It is too many times cheaper to get into live recording with LS9-32 channel desk and a computer than to get an SC48 and have 18 tracks only. I feel people would bite the bullet and get more expensive SC48 instead if there was a way to track all the 48 inputs.
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/17319-5162

14. Remove SC48 20 slot limitation

DSP on this board is limited anyway. I feel 20 slots only is unnecessary limitation and by removing it would enable users to use all of the limited resources of the board.
http://avid.venue.ideascale.com/a/dtd/20672-5162


I'll add stuff here as I go along and please feel free to add ideas that you feel don't get the attention they deserve.
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2010, 10:28 AM
ionStorm ionStorm is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

"Proper" Virtual Soundcheck in SC48
It would be awesome to be able to switch the FWx inputs back and forth like on the HDx without having to worry about gain stages and all that nonsense. Volunteer friendly!

Comprehensive Virtual Soundcheck
Yamaha is already one up in this area having full blown integration with Cubase AI (eg. labels, parameters, etc.)

Finger-friendly iPad Application to control Venue
Something like what Yamaha has. No explanation required.

Native remote control application
Not the VNC nonsense.

User accounts
Would be nice to lock the regular volunteers out of the Options menu...



Still love the board's sound...but I often feel like I may have made a wrong purchase for my church. Sigh.
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2010, 12:17 PM
poodo poodo is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

Linking channels parameters would be nice.
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2010, 02:39 PM
Scott Fahy Scott Fahy is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

Would be nice to lock the regular volunteers out of the Options menu...



Ask,(request, threaten) your volunteers to not touch anything on the OPTIONS page. If they don't listen and change stuff, they may not be the right person at that position.

Scott
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2010, 09:05 PM
Jason Stygar Jason Stygar is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fahy View Post
Would be nice to lock the regular volunteers out of the Options menu...



Ask,(request, threaten) your volunteers to not touch anything on the OPTIONS page. If they don't listen and change stuff, they may not be the right person at that position.

Scott
Perhaps you're right, but the peace of mind knowing no one has tooled around with your settings would be nice... I'd even go as far as to have it be able to lock out some patching or whatever variety of information you might deem necessary... Who knows what a well-intentioned fellow engineer with poor communication skills might feel necessary to do while you're hittin' the john...
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2010, 06:12 AM
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Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

I absolutely LOVE the user accounts idea...
I've thought a lot about it and...I think it would be sweet to have all of the audio/patching info in the show file...but then you get the user account and can customize how you interact with the console. This will allow a user to customize it how they want, then all users or whatever use the same "file" so that things stay consistent. Does that make any sense?
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Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2010, 06:34 AM
Limelight Limelight is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

User accounts is a must. There are also quite a few ideas in this post and on the Ideascale that would be very helpful as well. I'm sure the guys at Avid are looking into some of these as we speak. I would like to see more frequent software updates though. I explained the console to my management group before we purchased our SC48 and when asked about if in 2-3 years it would be outdated, I answered with the fact that the Venue consoles are like the smart phones of the digital mixing platform. If ever a new feature comes to fruition, we are sent a software upgrade, and then our desk has that feature, etc. This is a GREAT thing, IF it is done more than once every few years.

I'm sure it is very difficult for Avid to sort through all the "ideas," however, those ideas like user accounts, ipad application, recording more than 18 tracks into PT LE, etc. should be ones that get done rather quickly IMHO. I would be pretty dissapointed if a new software upgrade wasn't made available pretty quickly after the first of the year with some new features that seem to be pretty popular amongst this community. But if its not, I'm still gonna love the "out-of-the-box" greatness that Venue delivers!!
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2010, 10:31 AM
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Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

One of the things I love most about VENUE are the files are comparable with any VENUE desk. When folks give suggestions about adding or changing buttons or configurations of the actual control surface, I'm wondering if those features would be available on all consoles across the board, or if Avid plans on releasing a second version of the profile...or whichever control surface is being upgraded...I'd prefer that Venue keeps all the consoles running the same software as opposed to Yamaha which basically every console has a different version of the software and show files are not compatable.
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Ken Miller, Jr.
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Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2010, 09:19 PM
emluper emluper is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionStorm View Post

User accounts
Would be nice to lock the regular volunteers out of the Options menu...
We actually discussed this with them back in '04, but at the time they were still thinking of it as a touring board, not so much installation. And they definitely looked at us as if we were crazy when we said that we were from a local church! There are things that I know they are working on that are EXTREMELY difficult to accomplish after the fact because the initial concept for the board was quite different from the way in which a lot of us are using it.

Some of the same features that brought us to the board (being able to mix audio in the midst of a system crash) also make it VERY difficult to implement later after layers of software code have been written. I will say this though, I know several of the members of the development team and they are COMMITTED to making sure that YOU, the end user, will end up with the best tools they can provide for you given the resources available to them. I can say this, between the church guys and the theatre guys they are more than aware of this one, and they're working on it.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:41 PM
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Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
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Default Re: About good Venue development ideas and how they can die in Ideascale

Quote:
Originally Posted by emluper View Post
...I know several of the members of the development team and they are COMMITTED to making sure that YOU, the end user, will end up with the best tools they can provide for you given the resources available to them...
and THAT is why I love the VENUE team!
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Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
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