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  #11  
Old 10-31-2016, 10:39 AM
RedEyeJedi RedEyeJedi is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

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Originally Posted by garret View Post
The very simple fix first off is to always print 2 pops though your mix and then manually sync the stem at the end. That will at least mean you can send out a mix in sync till you figure out what's wrong in your set up.
Good advice man, ill do this tonight.
Do you mean just a 2 pop in beginning and a 2 pop at the end ?
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2016, 10:50 AM
RedEyeJedi RedEyeJedi is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

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Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
Is your system referenced to tri-sync? what codec are you using? Your system should not drift between half frame and 2 frames, that is too much of a variance. If you are not referenced to tri sync you can have up to 1 frame sync issues (which is enough to have your mixes rejected) but not 2 frames. Your video may be the problem, if you are using a GOP codec or MP4 it can lag by a lot. Use the Pro-Res codec, check the system sync with a reliable sync app, and reference your system. As you can see form what is happening to your mixes you can not work professionally with a system that is unreliable, these clients may never come back to you, and they may even pull the job. I would get the system referenced immediately (no matter the cost), fix the sync, and save this job and your reputation. All it takes is one unhappy client and your future can be easily compromised.

Thanks man... At the moment I am mixing these files at home with non HD pro Tools 11, stereo mix. the Video is mp4's... I think a good start is that I should get them converted to Pro-Res..
Could you enlighten me as to what Tri-Sync is? Im still quite new to final mix, and Im not even quite sure how to get my system sync referenced Perhaps you could point me in the right direction or throw some keywords and il do the research

The thing is re: the video and why i think it is a PRO tools bug.. is that when the OMf's and video is worked with in Cubase, for one of the same episodes, the editors say the sync comes back bang on. thats using the same mp4.
Without doubt my audio is being bounced late compared to the reference audio out the video... it is also coming in late after I print or bounce a 2pop in my production tracks.

At this stage im willing to do anything to fix it quick, as you said, no matter the cost.
but for now, i will just manually resync after i print tonight to make sure it aligns


Thanks for all your help man i appreciate!
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2016, 11:04 AM
garret garret is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

Yes put a 2 pop at the start on each source element track. So one on a dial track. One on an fx track and one on a music track. Do the same at the end of the show. Record these and check that they all align both together and at the original timecode. Do this manually for now till you figure out what's up with your system. Are you using any heavy cpu intensive Plugins? And you do have delay comp on? Are you perhaps double bussing something back on itself and in doing so causing delay comp to miscalculate? These are the things to check.
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  #14  
Old 10-31-2016, 12:38 PM
RedEyeJedi RedEyeJedi is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

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Originally Posted by garret View Post
Yes put a 2 pop at the start on each source element track. So one on a dial track. One on an fx track and one on a music track. Do the same at the end of the show. Record these and check that they all align both together and at the original timecode. Do this manually for now till you figure out what's up with your system. Are you using any heavy cpu intensive Plugins? And you do have delay comp on? Are you perhaps double bussing something back on itself and in doing so causing delay comp to miscalculate? These are the things to check.
okay cool ill check all that out.
Im using failry heavy plugs but not too much.. but i am running a WNS and RX Dialogue Denoise on the DG master bus.. i find just a little of each one does magic without being too noticable. they are both very low latency plugs tho
Other than that a couple of L2's and Fabfilter Pro MBs

Delay comp is on but to be honest I do not trust it.

I just checked with printing a 2 pop with multiple passes.. it prints about a qurater frame to the right. I tried turning video offline, no effect, I "blued out" the delay comp on print bus - no effect.. I turned off some plugins - and it has some effect.. but the printed 2 pop is still off, just less, with the noise reduction plugins and the L2's turned off

so the question comes up...Is it just a thing that audio will always print a bit to the right in pro tools if you are using lots of plugins, or is delay compensation faulty in PT11??
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2016, 01:34 PM
RedEyeJedi RedEyeJedi is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

Also Wondering... could this be a problem?

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=212057
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2016, 06:33 PM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEyeJedi View Post
Thanks man... At the moment I am mixing these files at home with non HD pro Tools 11, stereo mix. the Video is mp4's... I think a good start is that I should get them converted to Pro-Res..
Could you enlighten me as to what Tri-Sync is? Im still quite new to final mix, and Im not even quite sure how to get my system sync referenced Perhaps you could point me in the right direction or throw some keywords and il do the research

The thing is re: the video and why i think it is a PRO tools bug.. is that when the OMf's and video is worked with in Cubase, for one of the same episodes, the editors say the sync comes back bang on. thats using the same mp4.
Without doubt my audio is being bounced late compared to the reference audio out the video... it is also coming in late after I print or bounce a 2pop in my production tracks.

At this stage im willing to do anything to fix it quick, as you said, no matter the cost.
but for now, i will just manually resync after i print tonight to make sure it aligns


Thanks for all your help man i appreciate!
It sounds like you are deep into this production and trying to solve this issue, my advise is:right now, to save your job, take your work to a studio that is fully professional, check the syn (adjust if necessary) and finish the job. I would not advise you to try to buy new sync gear, and attempt to set it up for this job, since it seems that you may not be that comfortable with this set up. The set up is easy but it will take some time to get the system to play perfectly and consistently (get all the bugs out). Variances will occur depending on the video card, the codec or container, the latency of your monitor/screen, real time processing, etc. So there is a lot to tweak before you are sure that everything is working reliably. Do a search for resolving Pro-Tools to tri sync and aligning to video edge. But as other mentioned, you should always start by putting 2 beeps at heads and tails and convert your video to a better codec. I have PT HDX dsp fully referenced and I can not use MP4, it just lags terribly, and even H264 does not work for me. I always use either Pro-Res or avid coded. You also have other things to consider, like how your system responds at 720p Vrs 1920X1080 and at what frame rate and video container or codec, all this can affect sync to and external monitor, and you may have to adjust the off set of the video play back.
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2016, 03:03 AM
garret garret is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

There are two issues at play here. Your picture sync. And your system sync. It's clear that your system sync is out so I would go back to basics and remake your mixing template from scratch and keep printing two pops as you make it and see when and where the delay is happening. Make a really simple template first with just the routing for the busses and stems and no plugins. Is that in sync? Then take it from there.
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2016, 12:46 PM
RedEyeJedi RedEyeJedi is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

Ok guys thanks

The above last 2 posts is my plan of action for now...
I did take my project today to another studio to print, I have the rest of the week to sort it out.

Cheers again
D
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  #19  
Old 11-01-2016, 12:50 PM
RedEyeJedi RedEyeJedi is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
convert your video to a better codec. I have PT HDX dsp fully referenced and I can not use MP4, it just lags terribly, and even H264 does not work for me. I always use either Pro-Res or avid coded. You also have other things to consider, like how your system responds at 720p Vrs 1920X1080 and at what frame rate and video container or codec, all this can affect sync to and external monitor, and you may have to adjust the off set of the video play back.
With regards to codec... do you have a recommended app to convert mp4 to Pro-res?
I have mpegstreamclip, but Pro-res does not come up under the export to quicktime options... also - with all these mp4's when i try convert it to apple motion jpeg A or any other mov, it says "invalid frame rate"

So ja, im looking for another converter to do these duties
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2016, 05:58 AM
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minister minister is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 11 Sync issues, OMF's and delay compensation

Pro Res is installed when you install the Apple Pro Products, or Final Cut X.

Get the AVID Codecs:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...Time-Codecs-LE
Use DNxHD 36

That will work great.

with MP4's, I find I have to change the extension to .mov, then I can load into MPEG Streamclip and convert.

Also, with AVC Coding, for whatever weird reason, I have to open the QT in QTX, then simply save it again naming it something different (or add a little something to the end of the file.) Then I can open that in MPEG Streamclip and export to DNxHD 36 (saved as a preset in MPEG Streamclip)
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