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  #1  
Old 08-10-2020, 05:10 AM
Husmas Husmas is offline
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Default Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Here's my issue:

When I record something timing feels slightly off. Turns out it's not only because of my bad playing, also pro tools 2018.7.0, console and my apollo twin x is suspected of playing an integral, yet unexplainable, part in this.

I have tried checking and unchecking Ignore Errors During Playback (this worked for a while, until it didn't)
I have thrashed PT and UAD prefs, uninstalled/reinstalled uad software.
I have Input Delay Compensation off
Recorded through various inputs and cables (even tried the talkback mic in the apollo)
Delay compensation is enabled in PT
Low latency monitoring is enabled in PT
I've tried all conceivable combinations of HW buffer size

No matter what I do, the recorded file is late by a small amount and needs to be nudged back in time.

Included is a screenshot of a test I did, where I recorded the click track first through a bus, internally. (The green one)
And then through a microphone. (the blue one)
As you can see, the the blue one is delayed compared to the green one.
The session only contains these two audio tracks, a master track and zero plugins. Also, console isn't running any plugins.

I understand a small amount of latency when recording like this is impossible to avoid, but this amount feels like too much.

The super weird thing is, I've had this issue in the past and solved it with Ignore Errors During Playback unchecking, but that does absolutely nothing now...

Hoping for good advice on fixing this
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Last edited by Husmas; 08-10-2020 at 05:50 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-10-2020, 08:49 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

What is the latency you are seeing in number of samples? And milliseconds. What sample rate is your session at?

What exact version of Pro Tools are you using? Your profile says Pro Tools 9, you are posting in a 2018 forum..

Things like cables have no effect on latency.

If you have no plugins in a session delay compensation should not change things.

Low latency monitoring will not change recording latencies (it really just disabled plugins on inputs... which you don’t have any).

If you are seeing small latencies I expect you are just seeing conversion time in your interface when going out and back in through a physical mic... Pro Tools will not compensate for that.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 08-10-2020 at 09:49 AM.
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2020, 11:34 AM
Husmas Husmas is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

I will try to find out how to measure the sample count.

Recording in 24/48 at the moment

Updated my profile. Thanks for bringing my attention to this.

I suspect it might be a uad interface (Apollo twin x) issue, since there are other instances of the same issues here and there on the web.

So, I guess I’m really looking for someone who made it work on any pt version. I don’t mind upgrading, but if the issues persists there, I’d rather save my money.
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  #4  
Old 08-10-2020, 11:55 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Make what work? How about understanding what is going on first. There are multiple ways you could be seeing expected latency here. If it’s conversion latency you are seeing in this test that is not usually a practical
problem (but OK takes away some folks ideas about UAD being “no latency”).
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Old 08-10-2020, 12:09 PM
Husmas Husmas is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Make what work? How about understanding what is going on first. There are multiple ways you could be seeing expected latency here. If it’s conversion latency you are seeing in this test that is not usually a practical
problem (but OK takes away some folks ideas about UAD being “no latency”).
Yeah, so I thought I’d explained my situation, but I’ll gladly give it another go.

Input is recorded late. My test, I think, demonstrates this.

I’m using an Apollo interface, that, seemingly, have a history of doing this:
Ie. ; https://uadforum.com/support-trouble...pro-tools.html in which a uad rep states, they find it to be a bug and will contact avid to try to remedy.

I still haven’t figured out how to answer the question regarding sample count, but I’m working on it.

By “made it work” I mean; were able to record “in time” on any pro tools version (preferably 2018.7 which is my current version) with a uad interface. And possibly, if anyone in this process came across similar issues, found a workaround.

I’d be happy to supply any missing information.
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  #6  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:09 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Put your Pro Tools time display is samples. And select the region between the two waveforms like you have in your screenshot and the duration display will be in samples. You can repeat for time... to save us having to do the multiplication. Tell is the numbers because we won't be able to read them in the screenshots.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...-time-displays

The little white down arrows next to any time/counter.

We have *no idea* of the duration you are talking about. It might be conversion time, it might be a fixed IO playback buffer depending on how you have routing done. What it is unlikely to be is a mystery.... but if it is the next thing to exclude is the UAD hardware.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 08-10-2020 at 04:25 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:21 AM
Husmas Husmas is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Back with some Numbers:

samples: 334-ish
Milliseconds: I guess 5, but I’ll attach screenshots

Hope this helps.
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File Type: jpg 5D9AC697-DA0E-458F-BAAB-67BCA7E882A6.jpg (48.3 KB, 0 views)
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:56 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Thanks. And just to be clear what was the IO buffer setting when you measured that?
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2020, 12:14 PM
Husmas Husmas is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Thanks. And just to be clear what was the IO buffer setting when you measured that?
I’m on 1024 and “normal”
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2020, 12:53 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Recorded signal delayed (LATENCY ISSUE)

Is there a Master track with any plugins? Those would cause this issue(master track plugin latency is not compensated for, so you would be hearing late, causing you to play late). I was under the impression that most Apollo users would be working inside the Apollo "mixer" window(wondering if that would improve things for you). As for LLM, personally, I almost never use it as its often either broken, or causes other issues(like doubling in the headphones). Its my preference to set the playback buffer to 64, leave LLM off and be careful of what plugins are in play while recording(any plugins I use for mixing that exhibit more than a few samples of latency are inactive while I am tracking). Not sure if any of this helps, but maybe altering your method a little can make recording work better for you.

You might also check out LUNA(free to all Apollo owners) and see if that could be a solution

Last thing to check; look at the Delay Compensation numbers and watch for any that change when you put that track into record-ready. If that track suddenly gains a lot of compensation that makes no sense, it could be a send that has no destination(make sends inactive and see if the Delay Compensation number drops). This has happened to me a few times and it caused over 1900 samples of latency on the record-enabled track
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