Output Dither

[Wolfgang Eller]

Dithering just works in the LSB and there is, with 24 fixed / 32 float, always noise.
That's the difference between 24 and 16bit fixed where dithering make sense.

[Darryl Ramm]

Anybody who can show me they can hear any difference from any dithering at anything near 24 bits I'll buy them a case of the finest America Budweiser.

[NewHere]

Those are all valid points, but I understand this place as the support forum for Pro Tools and didn't came here to get lectured if one should dither or not (there is a discussion over at gearslutz). I simply wanted to know if Pro Tools does this, yes or no. I thought it did, because I misinterpreted the quoted sections of the manual, and came here for clarification. I was wrong and will dither the outputs myself from now on, you don't have to and we can discuss all this over at gearslutz. No disrespect, I was simply seeking for a technical answer from my DAW manufacturer.

[Wolfgang Eller]

Originally Posted by NewHere

I simply wanted to know if Pro Tools does this, yes or no.

I don't know if PT is dithering from 64float to 24fixed but what I know is, that it doesn't make any sense to dither after the physical output.
It needs to be dithered in the 64float to 24fixed conversion process.
If it is already 24bit PCM you're just adding noise without any further advantages.

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by NewHere

Those are all valid points, but I understand this place as the support forum for Pro Tools and didn't came here to get lectured if one should dither or not (there is a discussion over at gearslutz). I simply wanted to know if Pro Tools does this, yes or no. I thought it did, because I misinterpreted the quoted sections of the manual, and came here for clarification. I was wrong and will dither the outputs myself from now on, you don't have to and we can discuss all this over at gearslutz. No disrespect, I was simply seeking for a technical answer from my DAW manufacturer.

This is NOT a place where you get Avid support. This is a discussion forum for Avid products users.

You do NOT need to have a dither plugin on your output UNLESS you're planning to bounce that output to a smaller than 24bits size file.

PT does NOT "dither the outputs", because it's not necessary. Your interface recieves a stream of 24bit samples and converts them to an analog current, D-A.

Originally Posted by NewHere

...if one should dither or not (there is a discussion over at gearslutz). I simply wanted to know if Pro Tools does this, yes or no.

NO, one should not, unless you're bouncing to a lower bit size, like 16.

NO, PT does not do this.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Eller

It needs to be dithered in the 64float to 24fixed conversion process

... which is why it is DAW mixer responsibility. Any dithering plugin has zero effect on or after physical output.

[NewHere]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

PT does NOT "dither the outputs", because it's not necessary. Your interface recieves a stream of 24bit samples and converts them to an analog current, D-A.

Originally Posted by JFreak

... which is why it is DAW mixer responsibility. Any dithering plugin has zero effect on or after physical output.

I am sending audio inside of PT to my stem Auxes, which happens in 64 bit. The Auxes are routed to the physical outputs of my DAC which receives 24bit streams. Obviously there is a conversion taking place. Since the DAW mixer doesn't dither, why exactly would dithering plugins on the Aux channels have zero effect? My DAC would now receive dithered 24 bit audio streams. Yes, all that happens way below the noise floor of my desk and yes, since the plugins are pre fader I can't use the Aux faders, but those are not the questions of interest here.

[JFreak]

Because the output of dither plugin goes to 64bit mixer that feeds the physical output

[JFreak]

Conversion from floating-point to fixed-point is different than fixed to fixed. Which is why you should not worry too much about it. You can think of it (overly simplified) that when you create a fixed-point word from floating-point you get 23 solid bits and the last bit is calculated from the floating point mantissa. So in a sense it is dither in itself. Whatever "errors" there may be are about -140dBFS

[ZEUSS]

Speaking of Dither, It would be great if we could choose what dither algo to use on "Exporting" files. Goodhrtz,Izotope etc....

As of now if exporting 24 to 16 the stock dither is automatically applied.

In my workflow, I use print tracks and export clips as files. If I want to export say 96K/32 mixes or other clips, and use a better dither, I have to do that out of protools.

A drop down menu "Dither" should be in the export selected box. you would figure that would of been implemented by this point......