The Prop-heads lower upgrade to Reason 10 to $99

[DonaldM]

For those who own some prior version of Reason, I just saw that the P-heads have lowered the upgrade price to 10 to $99. Version 10 added several new rack VI's, and now one of them, Europa, will also come as a separate VST which you can host directly in any DAW with VST hosting. (Use Blue Cat Audio Patchwork for that in Pro Tools myself).



I haven't jumped to 10 yet from 9.5. I'm holding out for when they make some significant improvements in their MIDI implementation, and if they will allow VST hosting with Reason in Rewire mode. If that happens, I'm all in!

[musicman691]

I'm tempted as I'm still on version 8 but it's not just the MIDI implementation I'd like to see worked on but the documentation on what they have now. To put it mildly it sucks at least for MIDI. Basic things like how to change MIDI channels so you can trigger more than one Combinator via a single Rewire channel. Or how to have just one path via Rewire that allows both triggering of MIDI notes and a controller like volume (cc7). Right now to do that I have to route to two places in Reason from PT11. Ditch the Combinator and go direct to a synth and a single path into Reason suffices. Until such simple stuff like that gets fixed I'm holding out.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I'm tempted as I'm still on version 8 but it's not just the MIDI implementation I'd like to see worked on but the documentation on what they have now. To put it mildly it sucks at least for MIDI. Basic things like how to change MIDI channels so you can trigger more than one Combinator via a single Rewire channel. Or how to have just one path via Rewire that allows both triggering of MIDI notes and a controller like volume (cc7). Right now to do that I have to route to two places in Reason from PT11. Ditch the Combinator and go direct to a synth and a single path into Reason suffices. Until such simple stuff like that gets fixed I'm holding out.

Jack -- Why don't you sign up to beta test it? That way you can see for yourself and decide.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

Jack -- Why don't you sign up to beta test it? That way you can see for yourself and decide.

I don't need that kind of headache. What I'm looking for is the Propheads to fix these basic issues. Face it - their documentation in certain areas is severely lacking. I just took a look through the documentation for the most recent version of the Reason docs and there is not word one about MIDI channel assignments for Combinators. I should be able to run multiple Combinators in a Reason rack and have them all triggered by the same MIDI input coming from Rewire. It doesn't happen and I can find no way to make it happen.


If it's possible and you know then why not tell me what I'm missing?

[DetroitT]

"for is the Propheads to fix these basic issues."

WoW.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I don't need that kind of headache. What I'm looking for is the Propheads to fix these basic issues. Face it - their documentation in certain areas is severely lacking. I just took a look through the documentation for the most recent version of the Reason docs and there is not word one about MIDI channel assignments for Combinators. I should be able to run multiple Combinators in a Reason rack and have them all triggered by the same MIDI input coming from Rewire. It doesn't happen and I can find no way to make it happen.


If it's possible and you know then why not tell me what I'm missing?

I don't know that I ever tried to do that. I'll experiment with it and see. You're right, it does seem like that ought to be possible.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

I don't know that I ever tried to do that. I'll experiment with it and see. You're right, it does seem like that ought to be possible.

I asked about this over in the ReasonTalk forum and that forum doesn't seem to have a whole lot of traffic on it. I seem to remember asking this same question over on the old Reason forum and got no response.

I think I found a workaround that involves doing the multiple MIDI channel assignment inside PT. For instance when using a single Combinator I have to set the MIDI output in the instrument view for the PT instrument track that has Reason on it to two separate paths in Reason (one for the Combinator name mix channel and the other for the Combinator name itself). Elsewise Reason only see the MIDI notes being played in PT and such things as MIDI cc messages like cc7 for volume. Again this is one of those things that the Reason documentation falls down on.

[DonaldM]

Whenever I want to use the same MIDI output to play multiple instruments on the Reason rack, I just copy the MIDI track and just change the output assignment for it. Doesn't really take but a few seconds to do.



What I'd like to see the P-heads do is allow MIDI routing on the rack much like we now can do with audio routing. Add MIDI IN/OUT ports on the back of rack VI's and fx, and then we can use virtual MIDI cables to go from anything to anything. Add to that having a MIDI splitter module (like the Spyder for audio) and you can have one MIDI signal in going to multiple outs.



I've made the suggestion directly to the p-heads, and even got a response back asking me to clarify a couple things I mentioned. So, I know its on their radar. Whether they do anything with it or not, remains to be seen. But that kind of MIDI improvement would solve most other issues.



I've also asked, repeatedly, that VST hosting be allowed when Reason is in slave mode. That alone would be reason enough to upgrade for me.



I also know they've talked about adding an additional 4 master knobs on the front of the Combinator. I expect we'll see some major leaps whenever Reason 11 shows up.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

Whenever I want to use the same MIDI output to play multiple instruments on the Reason rack, I just copy the MIDI track and just change the output assignment for it. Doesn't really take but a few seconds to do.

What I'd like to see the P-heads do is allow MIDI routing on the rack much like we now can do with audio routing. Add MIDI IN/OUT ports on the back of rack VI's and fx, and then we can use virtual MIDI cables to go from anything to anything. Add to that having a MIDI splitter module (like the Spyder for audio) and you can have one MIDI signal in going to multiple outs.

I've made the suggestion directly to the p-heads, and even got a response back asking me to clarify a couple things I mentioned. So, I know its on their radar. Whether they do anything with it or not, remains to be seen. But that kind of MIDI improvement would solve most other issues.

I've also asked, repeatedly, that VST hosting be allowed when Reason is in slave mode. That alone would be reason enough to upgrade for me.

I also know they've talked about adding an additional 4 master knobs on the front of the Combinator. I expect we'll see some major leaps whenever Reason 11 shows up.

Agreed with all the above. But to do the MIDI stuff they'd really have to better document all things MIDI as well.



Also how about audio from PT into Reason to use the fx in a rack? Imagine using Alligator on PT audio

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Agreed with all the above. But to do the MIDI stuff they'd really have to better document all things MIDI as well.



Also how about audio from PT into Reason to use the fx in a rack? Imagine using Alligator on PT audio

That's something else I've brought up more than once. I've asked time and again why Rewire isn't a 2-way street and I've never really received any sort of good explanation why it can't be. If you can route audio FROM the slave to the host, why not the other way round? Its all internal bits and bytes anyways.



I tried to figure a way to do it using virtual audio cables. The problem is, that creates a bit of delay, sort of like what happens when you route a MIDI signal from PT to an external hardware synth, and then route the audio from that synth back to PT. Its just the nature of the beast, I guess.



The only solution I've come up with for now is to simply export the audio track from PT as a WAV file, and then import that into Reason, add the effect (Alligator, say), and then send the resulting audio back to a PT Aux track for further processing/mixing. A bit cumbersome, but it does work.



But, now that the P-heads have begun hosting VSTs, they have also come out with one of their rack VI's as a VST VI as well. Makes me wonder if we might see more of that in the near future. It just might be that you'll be able to have all your Reason VI's and FX as both RE's AND VSTs. Then, we're off and running!



It is true that one can use something like Blue Cat Patchwork to do similar stacking and layering with fx and all like you can in a Combinator...but it really isn't as easy, and you really don't have the elegance of control and ease of routing like we see in the Combinator. That is perhaps the most powerful tool out there for sound design, in my opinion.