Oh Freedom! Live Mix Project

[Ginridge]

Thanks! I did set up the session as AIFF, 48/24 and will confirm that with the video folks. Your feedback VERY appreciated!

[Ginridge]

On a slightly different note, I'm dealing with a significant hum issue on the first 2 songs. I've downloaded a demo of plug in called X Hum and have been able to reduce it to manageable levels. As a demo, I have 7 days to use it. If I use it in Audio suite mode and save the session, will the processing stay on the track after the trial period ends? Should I use a destructive or non destructive method?

Thanks!

[sdmaas]

It absolutely will stay. Depending on how often you will use "x-hum" you may want to consider getting iZotope RX. Far better and it can be used stand-alone as well. I never got usable results from Waves restoration plugins. On the other hand, I regularily use Waves C-6 multiband compressor into Waves H-EQ for certain restoration tasks. Using an FFT style meter helps to target the trouble noises. Granted H-EQ visualizations are garbage compared to higher-end FabFilter plugs, but they get you by for a fraction of the cost. If you can remove the "hum" by using a HPF and sweeping it up until it kills the "hum" enough, then you can get by without any more added cost. Typically a 60Hz hum gets through tracks that have interference issues; shelving at 75Hz usually takes care of it.

[its2loud]

You should be mixing these songs to picture. Preferably the final edit for a few reasons.
1. The video editor is bound to edit things slightly out of sync when doing a multi camera edit.
2. The relationship of the mix changes drastically when you can actually see the performers. For instance, on a close up of the choir, you might bring the choir up a little in the mix to draw the viewer into the program.
3. Setting your timeline. The timeline in ProTools should match the video timeline. Otherwise you’re going to be moving things around which may cause sync issues in the end.

In addition, frame rate is not the same as sample rate. Two very different things. If the video editor is editing in 29.97 or 24fps and you’re mixing in 23.98 or 25fps you are going to have one huge headache on your hands when it comes to matching audio to picture.

I would slow down a bit if you can and get a handle on A. Mixing a large video project and B. Learning automation for your purposes and needs.

[Ginridge]

its2cloud,

Excellent advice, thanks! I've come to Pro tools slowly over the years starting out in analog, then using Digital tape (3 Tascam DA-38s) and mixing w/pro's in Pro Tools, then taking the plunge in 2010 w/PT 9. I've always approached recording from an "analog perspective" and still use PT as more as a digital "tape deck" than most modern users. That is to say, it's never set to a grid, I don't work on loops and I always use live instruments rather than virtual ones.

Over the years I have developed my basic recording skills fairly well in Pro tools but have had to do so largely on my own without having a mentor or someone I could ask simple questions to so while some of my skills are quite good (editing, time correction, general mix and EQ) there a some big holes in my knowledge which is one of the reasons I value the feedback I'm getting here so much!

I've been hitting the Pro Tools books fairly heavily in the past several weeks and have come a long way since I first posted. Many times it comes down to simply not knowing the right way to ask the correct question.

Your advice on the video timeline sounds excellent and I'll try to make that happen. I do have "final cut" on the video and hope to be able to schedule the video work session sometime in the next week or 2. This performance and production was all done at a small state University and they move slower than molasses in January! That being said, avoiding the very issues you are speaking of is exactly what I want to do.

I am getting fairly comfortable with the mixing process of this big project now. I've gone through the entire project multiple times tweaking the EQ, compression, de-esses etc and have made most of the time fixes, edits and corrections for the musicians and am starting get a fairly decent mix. To keep the files manageable and avoid overworking my system, I've deleted sections of tracks not in use at any given time minimizing the amount of real time processing and automation I'll need to do. This was especially important with the 7 choir mics. I was able to get very usable results with the X-Hum plug in and am very slowly starting to automate things. I am doing this manually, by choice, for greater control and to avoid stressing the system. I've managed to edit and EQ the tracks to the point where I'm primarily automating volume levels, some mutes and the occasional pan. By adjusting manually, I have significantly fewer automation points and can control the mix to fractions of a db. Frequently all I need to bring up a track enough to create clarity in the mix is 1 or 2 db. It's time consuming, but makes for a very articulate mix. That being said, I'm sure things will get more complicated as I move forward. I've pre mixed and charted out all the proposed levels per track per song and am working off that documentation as I begin to automate.

I would assume from your advice that I should have the final video edit first, then do the final mix to the video. I also see that I need to make sure that both formats match in the FPS rate. The most recent Pro tools book I have is Pro Tools 10 Ignite and I'll delve into the video section of that tonight to try to get a better handle on just what I'm getting into. I have yet to get the videographer to the table (or the phone) to goober any of these details but will make a point of doing so ASAP.

Again, thanks for the advice! Please don't hesitate to point out stupid mistakes if I'm making them.

[Top Jimmy]

I would recommend going the other route and mixing it as an audio project and then lay it back to video assuming that all the cameras and audio recorder weren't synchronized. In 68 minutes no doubt there will be a few frames drift so lining the audio back up will require some varispeed elastic editing.

While it makes sense in video projects to audibly feature what you see as the shots move, I personally find that irritating when done in a musical performance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[its2loud]

Originally Posted by Ginridge

its2cloud,

Excellent advice, thanks! I've come to Pro tools slowly over the years starting out in analog, then using Digital tape (3 Tascam DA-38s) and mixing w/pro's in Pro Tools, then taking the plunge in 2010 w/PT 9. I've always approached recording from an "analog perspective" and still use PT as more as a digital "tape deck" than most modern users. That is to say, it's never set to a grid, I don't work on loops and I always use live instruments rather than virtual ones.

Over the years I have developed my basic recording skills fairly well in Pro tools but have had to do so largely on my own without having a mentor or someone I could ask simple questions to so while some of my skills are quite good (editing, time correction, general mix and EQ) there a some big holes in my knowledge which is one of the reasons I value the feedback I'm getting here so much!

I've been hitting the Pro Tools books fairly heavily in the past several weeks and have come a long way since I first posted. Many times it comes down to simply not knowing the right way to ask the correct question.

Your advice on the video timeline sounds excellent and I'll try to make that happen. I do have "final cut" on the video and hope to be able to schedule the video work session sometime in the next week or 2. This performance and production was all done at a small state University and they move slower than molasses in January! That being said, avoiding the very issues you are speaking of is exactly what I want to do.

I am getting fairly comfortable with the mixing process of this big project now. I've gone through the entire project multiple times tweaking the EQ, compression, de-esses etc and have made most of the time fixes, edits and corrections for the musicians and am starting get a fairly decent mix. To keep the files manageable and avoid overworking my system, I've deleted sections of tracks not in use at any given time minimizing the amount of real time processing and automation I'll need to do. This was especially important with the 7 choir mics. I was able to get very usable results with the X-Hum plug in and am very slowly starting to automate things. I am doing this manually, by choice, for greater control and to avoid stressing the system. I've managed to edit and EQ the tracks to the point where I'm primarily automating volume levels, some mutes and the occasional pan. By adjusting manually, I have significantly fewer automation points and can control the mix to fractions of a db. Frequently all I need to bring up a track enough to create clarity in the mix is 1 or 2 db. It's time consuming, but makes for a very articulate mix. That being said, I'm sure things will get more complicated as I move forward. I've pre mixed and charted out all the proposed levels per track per song and am working off that documentation as I begin to automate.

I would assume from your advice that I should have the final video edit first, then do the final mix to the video. I also see that I need to make sure that both formats match in the FPS rate. The most recent Pro tools book I have is Pro Tools 10 Ignite and I'll delve into the video section of that tonight to try to get a better handle on just what I'm getting into. I have yet to get the videographer to the table (or the phone) to goober any of these details but will make a point of doing so ASAP.

Again, thanks for the advice! Please don't hesitate to point out stupid mistakes if I'm making them.

It sounds like you're being very careful and diligent regarding the quality of the mix. I commend you for taking on this challenge.
I work as a Re-recording mixer and 99.9% of my work is to picture. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Again, I would advise against working without picture. You don't have to make any mix adjustments to picture if you don't want to but if you don't look at picture I can guarantee there will be problems down the road. I have experienced the following in several music performance shows.
1. close up shots out of sync to actual performance
2. Visual cheats, meaning the video shot used is not the actual one in the performance.
3. Song edits that were made in the video edit, or audio edit, that don't line up to picture.
4. Camera sync issues that the video editor didn't know about when editing the show and thus created a headache for audio.
Probably others that I'm missing.

These are not meant to scare you. I'm merely informing you so you know what to look for down the road. I don't know the extent of your project or the performances so I leave that to you to make the best decisions. Like I mentioned. You Tube is a great source for education videos. Books are great but they only get you so far.

Also, Is this project for a DVD release? Web? Other? If so, you'll need to pay attention to you final delivery levels depending on the delivery format.

Good luck!

[Ginridge]

its2cloud, Thanks very much. You're not scaring me, I appreciate the feedback immensely and will definitely be in touch as these issues arise.

The project is being created for DVD, and is supposed to be offered for Illinois PBS stations with a possibility of also being offered to National PBS stations. Of course, I'll use spin off pieces for You tube promos, but that is secondary to the DVD and TV use. With that in mind, I assume I need to have this done to pro standards to even be considered.

One of my big concerns is that we are producing this to those standards. I'm having an issue getting the video folks to come the table to answer even the most basic questions. They have now indicated that they won't be able to work on this until June (again a University video team). With that in mind, I'm trying to get as much as possible done ahead of time with the thought that I'll do a final re-mix when I finally get the video. I'm being VERY careful not to edit the audio in any way that will affect the timeline although I've had to do many small time corrections on the actual musician's notes (Bass, percussion etc.) and a few cut and past corrections to parts where there were mistakes. I've got a single mp4 shot from the front of the room provided by the videographer and have made a point of NOT moving any note significantly that should show up in the shot, but I assume I really won't know until have the actual edited video to work with. There are a couple very short phrases (3?) where I made a mistake with a word and was able to steal the correct word from the dress rehearsal (which I also had recorded to multi-track). I didn't change the timeline in any way (actually stretched one to make the fit correct) and since it was recorded in the same space, the room ambiance was correct. Even so, I am concerned that there will be drift.

Again, thanks very much for the advice. I'm tweaking EQ and FX as I go and am about 1/3 of the way through basic automation (mostly very small adjustments in the levels of various tracks to create an appropriate balance, consistent level and "pop" selected musical phrases in the mix) and will put up a new soundcloud track when I feel like I've got something worth sharing.

[Ginridge]

Well, I've completed the automation and would appreciate some basic feedback on the mix from folks. I previously described the live set up, but essentially LOTS of open mics onstage so I've gone exclusively with DI feeds on the instruments. There are 5 choral mics on this segment plus lead vocal, improvised vocal and percussion mics. There was a significant amount of live reverberation on the vocal, choral and percussion mics so as of now I have not added additional reverb since my focus has been on creating a clean mix from some very chaotic tracks! I've got light compression on everything (LA-2A emulator for vocals, Dyna 3 compressor for most else) and used the EQ3 7 band EQ from Pro tools. On selected tracks that needed it, I've used a de-esser (primarily on acoustic and slide guitars to remove the pickup "zing" and bottle noise). On tracks like this one where the full 42 voice choir was onstage, I needed to EQ out a lot of low to mid range out of the choir mics to clean up the mic bleed.

I'd appreciate anyones thoughts on overall mix, EQ and what, if anything I should add in the way of additional FX. Thanks in advance.https://soundcloud.com/gin-ridge-rec...ercome-5-15-18[/SOUNDCLOUD]

[Ginridge]

OK, I never heard from anyone on this so I went ahead and saved the project as it was then added in reverb. I've deleted the above link and now have a new version posted. Again, any feedback and comments would be lately appreciated!

Here's the new soundcloud link:

https://soundcloud.com/gin-ridge-records/we-shall-overcome-5-19-18-w-reverbOK