7.4.2 elastic audio phase problem

[preachers]

i try to decrease the decay rate and it's better when cymbals relatively keep silence, but the part with full of cymbals becomes terrible.

i found a part with the drummer repeatly hit the ride bell, no matter what i set the decay rate, it always sound snatchy, it's in the rhythmic algorithm, pt8 seems not allow to use different algorithm together in a multi-drum, because it become extremely out of phase. it's acceptable in 7.4.2

[Mediterraneo]

Try this workflow: First analyze and work with rhythm plugin. Try to quantize first with less strenght (1/1, 1/2). Do editing and correct all mistakes. After drums are aligned with time in that manner, do more quantizing (1/8,1/16). After that you have to check every beat and remove false warp markers, and correct position for some. on the transients which sounds bad simply remove warp markers. After you do drums that way you will still hear some artefacts. Change plugin and render with xform which sholuld improve sound a lot.

There is no 5 minute solution to quaintize drums. I spend abuot half an hour per song.

[zakco]

Every time someone describes their preferred method for EA and multitrack drums, Beat Detective looks better and better...

I have tried every conceivable method, including that of many respected Duc'ers and none of them have been consistently usable. I can accept the fact that it requires some time and patience. But it's the lack of a clear solution that drives me crazy. At least with BD, you know what to expect from it...

EA is just not there for ANY multi mic'd sources IME. Try it on acoustic piano with 2 close mics and 2 ambient, or an acoustic gtr with 2 mics and a DI...more artifacts than the Museum of Natural History.

[DigiTechSupt]

i grouped all the kits together and gave them different algorithm(rhythmic for all the close mic drums and polyphonic for cymbals and space mic).

Every time someone describes their preferred method for EA and multitrack drums, Beat Detective looks better and better...

The problem here is that most people who experience problems (note that I'm saying most not all!) are not using EA correctly.

For multi-tracked drums you should use the same algorithm for all tracks - I've found that either polyphonic or rhythmic give the best results, with polyphonic typically being the choice 90% of the time.

Using different algorithms will cause problems with multi-miked sets.

The other problem is having too many or too few markers. After analysis, you should remove any markers on a track that are not on an actual transient, but also you should not remove too many markers, as that's what keeps transients aligned.

You should also group your tracks before quantizing - this will keep the relationship between tracks and warp markers aligned, which will reduce or eliminate phase issues.

If some drums still are not tight, manually move the warp marker for the transient, rather than quantizing the entire track again separately.

(The following is a personal opinion and is not, in any way, shape or form an endorsement by Digidesign, Avid or any of it's affiliates or subsidiaries.)

You might want to consider checking out some of Kenny Gioia's tutorials on EA over at Groove3.com. For $15 you can view the videos for a month and his are the best I've seen in explaining how to get great results from EA. For $29 you can view all videos on the site for a month.

[Mediterraneo]

Originally Posted by zakco

Every time someone describes their preferred method for EA and multitrack drums, Beat Detective looks better and better...

I have tried every conceivable method, including that of many respected Duc'ers and none of them have been consistently usable. I can accept the fact that it requires some time and patience. But it's the lack of a clear solution that drives me crazy. At least with BD, you know what to expect from it...

EA is just not there for ANY multi mic'd sources IME. Try it on acoustic piano with 2 close mics and 2 ambient, or an acoustic gtr with 2 mics and a DI...more artifacts than the Museum of Natural History.

Beat Detective never worked for me, except for some rare instruments (tuba, for example). Drums I was rather slice'n'dicing manually. Painful and time consuming, but it worked. Since i have used EA it made a revolution in my workflow. It is not easy to learn, I spent two weeks trials and errors to make it right (one week bumping with my head in the wall trying to quantize drums with original 7.4 version, instead cs9 version) , but now it works perfectly. But you're right, there is no clear solution, it has its learning curve, and you need to gain expirience, like for many other things in our job. What drives me crazy is a lack of the documentation except basic one, so you have to spend lot of time googling or to pay for 3rd party tutorials, like DigiTechSupt gave advice.

Main things are to properly edit warp markers, visually check all of them (takes 5 to 10 mins per song), for multi mic sources to GROUP THE TRACKS AND THE REGION (CTRL + ALT + G on windows). I do not believe that EA is having any difference between mac and windows, so this workflow should work on mac too. Most important thing is to, when all warp editing and prelistening job is done, to change plugin to xform and render it. It clears all artefacts out on most cases, even on multimiced acoustic guitar.

On 90% of my acoustical material it works perfectly. I can assume that on distant room microphones which should be loud in the mix EA can make problems with natural room reverb timing. When it comes to decision to choose between better timing performance and natural room microphone, solution is to lower room in the mix, or drop it completely, and change for some good artificial reverb or sample the room and use TL Space instead.

[sowby]

I usually just hop on over to the drums and give it another go. Then if there are still bad spots, just slice n dice manually. On hip hop tracks or anything else that is not acoustic based, and needs to be locked to a rigid grid, you could get away with just EA'ing the whole thing, then gating the drums to get rid of post-transient phase issues and cymbal slop. But again, usually just take a couple steps over to the drums and try it again.