Dolby 7. Is everybody mixing at this level?

[mostlypost]

I can pretty much guarantee you will go INSANE chasing the habits of commercial exhibitors. Standards are just that - a tool for professionals to mindlessly follow so they can sleep at night. Dub for the premier (the people that hire you and might in the future) and the Academy and let the great unwashed fend for themselves. Many chains are getting better and better but "Podunk" will always be "Podunk."

That's my snotty take and I'm sticking to it.

BTW I once got up in a theater in NY because the entire left side was out and dialog was in 20% distortion and my family was pissed because I was interrupting and ruining a movie they wanted to see. So much for the value of my life's work.

Bob Schaper

[dr sound]

Garnoil,
It is because I spent WEEKS of my life mixing a movie that I'm proud of. I gave her my card, discussed what I did on the movie and ASK her to put it CLOSE to the reference standard that it was mixed at. Sorry, but I am offended!

There is a standard. Dolby can't police it. There are other systems
out there (DTS/ Datasat) also. Just wait until it's all digital DCP where there is no Dolby involved where anyone can deliver a file and Bingo it's blowing our heads off because it was mixed at 75 in a very small room.

Since my films première at “ Grauman’s Chinese Theater“ where Dolby calibrates the room at guess what.. 85 spl. Other than it being a “big room” it translated fine. Nothing but compliments from numerous people including the Directors and Producers.

Many of the systems in the Theaters all over are neither calibrated or EQ’d correctly.
That and some of the component choices aren’t the greatest.

[garnoil]

Originally Posted by dr sound

Garnoil,
It is because I spent WEEKS of my life mixing a movie that I'm proud of. I gave her my card, discussed what I did on the movie and ASK her to put it CLOSE to the reference standard that it was mixed at. Sorry, but I am offended!

There is a standard. Dolby can't police it. There are other systems
out there (DTS/ Datasat) also. Just wait until it's all digital DCP where there is no Dolby involved where anyone can deliver a file and Bingo it's blowing our heads off because it was mixed at 75 in a very small room.

Since my films première at “ Grauman’s Chinese Theater“ where Dolby calibrates the room at guess what.. 85 spl. Other than it being a “big room” it translated fine. Nothing but compliments from numerous people including the Directors and Producers.

Many of the systems in the Theaters all over are neither calibrated or EQ’d correctly.
That and some of the component choices aren’t the greatest and guess what,
It’s the “US Mixers” …… who get blamed.

DR Sound, it just seems so "strange" to as you say "work as hard as possible mixing a film to its possible best" only to have the theatre manager decide what the volume should be. Now, imagine that the person that requested the movie sound to be brought up or down was not you, but actually some other customer with "some pull" say...a person in the head office, what if that person -for whatever the reason - had the manager change the volume up or down? They could totally wreck the film sound. So, if a film is mixed at given and know standard, should the theatre and the licensor of the technology not have to make sure that the film plays exactly as it was mixed? to the correct level. I understand that some theatres are better than others (newer equipment, better acoustics, etc) but there has to be a standard and the work of the mixer has to be respected. In your case, it is not that you asked them to play the film at the proper volume that is the problem, you had every right to do that and may be even complain to the master head office but because they were not playing it at the correct level to a start with. As you say, once you brought it up to their attention, you had to actually convince them to raise the level and even then they still only brought it up to 6.5 as opposed to 7 (or whatever it should have been). So even after you identify yourself, the manager decided that 6.5 was better than 7 . So if you had not been there, all the customers would have heard the mix wrong (too low), and all of your work would have been not appreciated by the audience and it could have stayed like that for months. So my point is: Theatres have to respect your work by adhering to the going standard. I am sorry I offended you, it was not my intention, I just find that theatres that do this to be unprofessional and ridiculous especially after we worlk so hard to make the best possible sound. My apologies again for having offended you.

G

[danijel]

Originally Posted by mostlypost

Dub for the premier (the people that hire you and might in the future) and the Academy

This is the bottom line - satisfy the people who hire you.

Marti, thank you, now I know what to do when the time comes for my first film to be premiered at the Chinese!

[thermisonic]

you will definitely drive yourself insane if you think that there is a way to stop cinema mangers/projectionists setting an arbitrary level.

it's never going to happen that dolby or anyone can freeze them out of having control of an SPL level in their establishment, even if we wanted them to. This is a quote from a recent email exchange with a producer who thought his film was too quiet and wants me to boost the level on the master.

'1: Generally, the sound level seems low. At the (insert name of cinema it premiered at), they turned the sound up from its usual setting of 5 to 6. Can it be generally boosted so the film is less quiet?'

I haven't replied yet but the answer is of course, yes, turn it up to 7 where it should be.

I won't change the master without major discussion but it takes a lot of effort to explain why. It's a conversation I have a lot.

Rob Walker AMPS

www.robwalkersound.com

[EarHole]

I can't remember the last time I went to a theatre and the level wasn't too loud.
Especially in an Imax theatre. Where dialog is on a razor's edge and any impacts just make me cringe. This coming from someone who sits in a studio listening for a living.

[garnoil]

Originally Posted by thermisonic

you will definitely drive yourself insane if you think that there is a way to stop cinema mangers/projectionists setting an arbitrary level.

it's never going to happen that dolby or anyone can freeze them out of having control of an SPL level in their establishment, even if we wanted them to. This is a quote from a recent email exchange with a producer who thought his film was too quiet and wants me to boost the level on the master.

'1: Generally, the sound level seems low. At the (insert name of cinema it premiered at), they turned the sound up from its usual setting of 5 to 6. Can it be generally boosted so the film is less quiet?'

I haven't replied yet but the answer is of course, yes, turn it up to 7 where it should be.

I won't change the master without major discussion but it takes a lot of effort to explain why. It's a conversation I have a lot.

Rob Walker AMPS

www.robwalkersound.com

Well, in the next two weeks I have premiers for 2 indie feature films that I mixed, and I hope they put the volume where it should be but for what you are telling me...I better expect the worse or may be just "luck" . I also work on 3 entries for TIFF and although the directors are only sending DVDs right now (for entry consideration) if any of these films makes it is TIFF I will be very disappointed if the set the level wrong. Just 2 weeks ago, I was discussing with the sound studio (where they are recording the orchestra for one of this films) the calibration for the studio for the orchestra.

[thermisonic]

Originally Posted by garnoil

Well, in the next two weeks I have premiers for 2 indie feature films that I mixed, and I hope they put the volume where it should be but for what you are telling me...I better expect the worse or may be just "luck" . I also work on 3 entries for TIFF and although the directors are only sending DVDs right now (for entry consideration) if any of these films makes it is TIFF I will be very disappointed if the set the level wrong. Just 2 weeks ago, I was discussing with the sound studio (where they are recording the orchestra for one of this films) the calibration for the studio for the orchestra.

I hope they are played correctly too. Educating directors and producers about the issue can help but sometimes only the kind of direct personal intervention Marti described is the only sure fire way, and even then it's down to the projectionist who may or may not agree.

Once the film goes out of that control it's gone to the arbitrary level setting.

I wish it were different.

Good luck with your screenngs,

Rob

[mr.armadillo]

Here's the Dolby scale:

From 4 to 10 it's 5/3dB per 0.5 step.

10 = 95dB
9.5 = 93.33dB
9 = 91.66dB
8.5 = 90dB
8 = 88.33dB
7.5 = 86.66dB

7 = 85dB

6.5 =83.33
6 = 81.66dB
5.5 = 80dB
5 = 78.33dB
4.5 = 76.66dB
4 = 75dB

-------------------

3.5 = 65dB
3 = 55dB
2 = 35dB
1 = 15dB


From 0 to 4 it's 10dB per 0.5 step.

[matt-o-]

My observation here in Germany is: the main culprits for playback levels completely free floating, are: advertising and trailers. The Dolby promoted LEQ value for those is way too high and abused to the max. It's like loudness wars in CD world. As everybody is maximizing for the last 10th dB LEQ, every ad is in reality (proper levels set) an assault on the health of every spectator. The loudness in the cinema is preferably set by the projectionist during the ads, which means, set down to around 4, which is absolutely appropriate for the 50% distortion sound created by 20dB peaklimiting in ads/trailers, but way too low for the real films. Our Dolby guys love to say, yes, but at least it's a norm, before there were no norms at all, but I answer everytime, yes, but before there was mono with 6dB headroom, now it's more than 5 channels with 20dB (or 14/16dB) headroom, so in reality it never was as worse as now. If advertising and trailers would be closer in average level to the final movie, we would be in a much narrower level range. That means max LEQ for trailers /ads down by 10dB at least.

rant off

cheers
matthias