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  #1  
Old 10-20-2004, 01:03 AM
deardaddy deardaddy is offline
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Default Can I do this live recording with PT ?

I have to record 18 tracks at a gig for 3 hours in the near future.
Before I do this job, I want to be sure my system is rock solid so I followed all the instructions in the threads concerning this kind of job (I did not buy a FW PCMCIA card) and most of the time, PT will show this 6093 error after a while.
I'm recording to my FW800 drive with 002R, I tried all the buffer sizes, I partitionned the dirve, I removed the partitions.
The "funny" thing is that, yesterday it recorded 18 tracks with no problems for 3 hours and today same configuration, error 6093 after 5 minutes.

As I'm writing this post, I'm recording (on the same computer) 18 tracks with the MOTU hardware and MOTU's Audiodesk software, it has been running (512 buffer size) for more than 1 hour now without any problem.
The FW800 drive is working smoothly, less disk access compared to the same kind of job with PT.

I love PT, can someone help me do this work with PT.

Take care.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2004, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

i guess you have read my instructions about this subject? please, follow the guidelines i have found to be a working solution, as with panther i have found out that there is ONLY ONE reliable combination, which is to have the 002 and the hard drive on separate busses. believe me, i have tested this a lot.
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Old 10-20-2004, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

less disc access? no, my friend, there are identical amounts of data written in both cases.

there are however differences in how the two apps allocate the disc and buffer the data - protools does all write activity in fixed "periods" of time, which is a little over a second roughly. during this "period" protools writes all data and always begins from the outer edge of the disc, moving closer to the center as it is necessary. after all write activity has been done, protools does nothing during the rest of the "period". this is a Good Thing (tm) because by listening to your hard drive you can tell if you have headroom or not. if you at some point find that the hard drive is constantly being accessed, you will soon notice that the drive cannot keep up anymore.
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Old 10-20-2004, 03:38 AM
deardaddy deardaddy is offline
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

Thanks JFreak for your answers, I was hoping you would read my post.

I completely trust your experience.

There are two main things I don't understand :
1) why is it possible to do this 18 tracks recording with Audiodesk and not with with PT, it is the same hard drive, if it was just a Panther problem wich cannot handle 2 FW devices on the same bus, I could not do it with Audiodesk too.
2) how come I was able to do a successfull test yesterday with PT and today, same set up and it is not possible to record more than 5 minutes ?

Thanks for your time all of you DUC people
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Old 10-20-2004, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

either the digidesign developers are stupider than audiodesk developers, or the way they have done protools just doesn't behave nicely with panther. is it apple's or digidesign's fault, i don't care - either way, panther protools doesn't work very predictably if you daisy-chain your audio interface and audio hardware.

predictability and reliability are close relatives when we talk about live projects, where you only have one shot to do it right. currently, protools systems are not predictable when you daisy-chain firewire. one day it might work and another day be a complete disaster. that just don't cut it, so the pcmcia card is worth its weight in gold if it gives back the predictability (and therefore reliability) of the system.

it was perfectly ok to daisy-chain in jaguar. i had zero problems with it, having my 002R connected to a lacie firewire hard drive. but then, enormous amount of problems after i upgraded to panther; luckily i was able to identify the problem and now (that i always use the pcmcia card) the reliability is on the same level as in jaguar era, or even better. in my opinion 10.3.4 & 6.4 is the best combination so far on osx, and i'm not so keen to try newer versions when they eventually come available
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2004, 04:27 AM
deardaddy deardaddy is offline
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

I'll give a try with your proposal and get one of those FW PCMCIA card.
You're right, I remember recording an 18 tracks gig with no problem with Jaguar, I did it on the internal 4200 rpm PB drive.

Thanks for your time.
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:46 AM
Brent Flash Brent Flash is offline
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

Quote:
either the digidesign developers are stupider than audiodesk developers, or the way they have done protools just doesn't behave nicely with panther. is it apple's or digidesign's fault, i don't care - either way, panther protools doesn't work very predictably if you daisy-chain your audio interface and audio hardware.

predictability and reliability are close relatives when we talk about live projects, where you only have one shot to do it right. currently, protools systems are not predictable when you daisy-chain firewire. one day it might work and another day be a complete disaster. that just don't cut it, so the pcmcia card is worth its weight in gold if it gives back the predictability (and therefore reliability) of the system.

it was perfectly ok to daisy-chain in jaguar. i had zero problems with it, having my 002R connected to a lacie firewire hard drive. but then, enormous amount of problems after i upgraded to panther; luckily i was able to identify the problem and now (that i always use the pcmcia card) the reliability is on the same level as in jaguar era, or even better. in my opinion 10.3.4 & 6.4 is the best combination so far on osx, and i'm not so keen to try newer versions when they eventually come available
According to your information my system should not be giving me the results I am about to report and it makes me wonder why?

Anyway I am happy to report that I have about 40 - 18 track sessions under my belt (and counting) with a 002R, 1.5 G4 PowerBook 10.3.5 / PT 6.4cs7, Glyph 120 gig FW400 drive, all set up like Digi says to do it (Daisy chained from FW400 to drive, from the drive to the 002R ) with not one problem to report. These sessions are as long as 4 hours in one session.

I do record to a HD 24 for backup now, so I am not that worried about the ProTools system. But I have not had to worry. It works great!
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2004, 04:27 AM
deardaddy deardaddy is offline
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

A friend just mine just lent me a FW PCMCIA card, I'll test tonight and let you know if my system is more stable when recording 18 tracks.
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Old 10-22-2004, 08:24 AM
deardaddy deardaddy is offline
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

Just in case anybody would be interested in my tests with the Adaptec PCMCIA card.
I connected the 002R to the PCMCIA card and the Lacie FW800 HD to the PB FW800 port, oh boy, I was happy, it was working, I recorded 18 tracks (256 buffer and 85% CPU).
After 70 minutes .... PT stopped, again this 6093 error
I tried 512 buffer, it ran it ran something 30 minutes. I tried 1024 buffer same results.
I also tried several CPU settings but PT never recorded more than 70 minutes.
At some point of my tests, it was 1024 buffer settings, it recorded for ..... 30 seconds.
No matter what settings I had, the CPU and disk usage window showed the same percentage of usage.

Not a small part of logical thing to base my work on.

I brought back my "old" Lacie FW400 HD and connected it to the PB than the 002R to the hard drive, ran another test (1024 buffer, 85% CPU), it recorded for more than 3 hours without any problem. This without the PCMCIA card.
Just a little more CPU and disk usage percentage.

When I woke up this morning I did the same connections but with the FW800 HD, session setting at 256 buffer and 70% CPU, I stopped the recording after 3 hours.
I even did other tasks while the PB was recording (internet, email).

Finally, I had better results without the PCMCIA card.

Is anybody getting any logical thought over these experiences ?

Brent, can you explain how you connect the HD24 as a backup, do you take all of the 002R outputs into it ? if so what if PT crashes.

JFreak, any comment ?
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2004, 08:40 AM
Brent Flash Brent Flash is offline
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Default Re: Can I do this live recording with PT ?

Quote:
Brent, can you explain how you connect the HD24 as a backup, do you take all of the 002R outputs into it ? if so what if PT crashes.
I built a splitter rack that allows me to send independent feeds to both systems. I may be designing something new in the near future because this setup incorporates a digital mixing board that I would like to stop hauling around.
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