cant set MIDI output as bus

[Glenjb]

Originally Posted by wuubb

im just trying to get the MIDI files i created from Sibelius converted to audio so i can combine it with the sibelius sounds for the final product

A midi file is just information. Tells what notes to be played, how hard, how long etc.. That's it. Midi files have no sound to convert. Needs to trigger a Virtual Instrument and then that can be recorded to an audio track.

To understand this Just try clicking on a insert in one of your instrument tracks like 'trumpet 1'. go to instruments and try mini grand or xpand or structure free. Then arm your 'trumpet 1' audio track to record. You should hear something. If you pick structure free it will open with just a simple sine wave sound. But as Daryl posted, pro tools does not come with great orchestral sounds.

[wuubb]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

No by "Virtual Instrument" we mean exactly the beast called a "Virtual Instrument", that is explained in the documentation. Open the Pro Tools reference guide PDF and search for "Virtual Instrument". Every other DAW in the world also calls this a "virtual instrument", as does Sibelius.

Virtual Instruments (aka VIs) are plugins (therefore that you put them in an insert slot on an instrument track) and they eats MIDI notes from that instrument track and spits out audio synthesized from those MIDI notes. They are the only way "inside the box" (without going out to an external MIDI synthesizer etc.) to turn MIDI into audio. No different really that what Sibelius is doing internally with VST VIs. Pro Tools comes with a very limited supply of virtual instruments, like "Mini Grand", "Xpand", "Boom" etc. what exactly you have will vary depending on the version/package of Pro Tools you are running. The ones directly usable in your version of Pro Tools will show up under the "Instruments" section when you are looking at insert options.

There are many hundreds of VIs available from third parties. You will likely need to purchase the ones you need, or purchase a way of hosting the VST plugins you already have (which Pro Tools will not directly support), like Vienna Ensemble Pro. http://www.viennaensemblepro.com/.

thank you, it appears that we are thinking of the same thing, as i didnt think that the Audigy was considered a "virtual instrument". what i consider a virtual instrument appears to be the same thing as you: stuff like the Vienna ensemble pro or East/West Quantum Leap. unfortunately, i cannot afford VI's like that which is why i have to make due with the Sibelius sounds and the MIDI on the Audigy, however bad it might sound.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I remember suggesting to you previously in another thread to get a basic virtual instrument working on a single instrument track in Pro Tools before trying to go any further. It looks like you never did that, take the time now, got get the Mini Grand VI set up to play chopsticks or whatever (just hand type the MIDI notes into an instrument track and then add the Mini Grand VI as an insert)... and then work out/read the documentation about how to bus that audio output so you can record it in an audio track.

if i remember correctly that post was about setting up the playback engine for pro tools and the sound card, not MIDI files, which i did follow your advice when setting up the hardware and was able to get things working from there, hence why i was able to edit the audio files i created from Sibelius.

and whether its 1 track or 100 tracks, the process is the same is it not? so it doesnt really matter how many tracks i have, cause i can experiment and get things working on 1 track out the 30 or so that i have and go from there

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

The reason you are hearing MIDI notes played in Pro Tools with your current setup is you are using your Audigy sound card's build-in MIDI synth. That will just play like you have an incredibly cheap and crappy external MIDI synth connected... which is exactly what it is. This is a complete waste of time, you need to work out how to use virtual instruments, your instrument tracks should have no MIDI output and have a VI insert on each one.

like i said, im not trying to use the VI's built into pro tools, im trying to get the sounds of the Audigy synth, whether or not it sounds bad is subjective, as im not sure whether or not youve heard these sounds before (maybe you have, in which case, i apologize). regardless, if they end up sounding bad and i dont like them, then i can use the ones that come with pro tools, or i can save up my money for awhile and maybe buy some of those 3rd party VI's you mentioned, but for right now, im only looking to work with what i have, as this project is not real high-end or on a professional level. you said yourself to keep things simple, so im actually trying to do that by using the sound card synth and figuring out how that works before going and spending lost of $$ on these other things.

Originally Posted by Glenjb

A midi file is just information. Tells what notes to be played, how hard, how long etc.. That's it. Midi files have no sound to convert. Needs to trigger a Virtual Instrument and then that can be recorded to an audio track.

i know that MIDI files are not actual sound, what i mean to say is that im trying to get the sounds that i hear when i play the MIDI track (through the sound card) into audio so that i can use them. i think i keep tripping over myself when i say things and keep misusing terms, which is probably why you guys are getting frustrated, and im sorry about that. normally i would just screw around with something (piece of software, actual object) and be able to figure out how it works, thats how i learned sibelius, and im actually quite good at it. pro tools though, that strategy of tinker around doesnt seem to be working for me on this. and i cant take the class they have at my school for pro tools because the schedule wont allow it so im stuck with...whatever

if you think this is getting out of hand and i should just go read the entire 1300+ pages of pro tools manuals, thats fine, ill go do that. however, i dont think that will of help because i think we all know that things are never as simple, straightforward, and easy as they make it out to be in manuals, and im probably not going to understand a lot of whats in there as im fairly new to this kind of stuff (at least with something like pro tools, ive used audacity but im sure your probably all laughing at that right now and the 2 are nothing alike)

once again, sorry that this is causing such a big mess. i hope im not being rude (if i am, i apologize, thats not my intent), im just trying to explain my situation and whats going on

[wuubb]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

This is making *less* sense.

How is using the audio card crappy midi synth possibly going to be better than what Sibelius can do with the VST VIs you already have? Just grab an audio track at a time from Sibelius and shove it into audio tracks in Pro Tools. And EQ, tweek, mix etc. it there. I've never used Sibelius but surely it can output multiple audio tracks or worse case mute all the other instruments/solo the instrument you want and just grab that instrument's audio output.

ive already done just that with the VI's from sibelius. im just looking to create a hybrid sound (if you will) between those VI's and the *crappy* MIDI synth. if it ends up being crappy, then fine, i'll just take the sibelius VI's and leave it at that. im just trying to do something different here by combining the MIDI synth sounds with the Sibelius VI's

does that make more sense than before?

[wuubb]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Well if you want to record the audio from the MIDI sound card, record it. You can't bus it anywhere, there is nothing to bus, it's an outboard MIDI device.

Assuming the Audigy is your playback engine it *might* have an internal loopback device that you can record the MIDI audio from (to an entirely new/separate audio track). I don't know, you'll have to play with the driver and/or read the documentation for the card. Otherwise you'll need to physically loop back the output of the Audigy card to an input on that card and set that as the input on your track.

Ok, i'll do that.

thank you again for all your support, i know this got all crazy and confusing but im glad we were able to get on the same page.

Till next time,
Cheers!

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by wuubb

Ok, i'll do that.

thank you again for all your support, i know this got all crazy and confusing but im glad we were able to get on the same page.

Till next time,
Cheers!

I think you're complicating the process. You said earlier you can't afford VI's...but you already HAVE a bunch...the ones that come bundled with your Pro Tools. You should have Xpand, Structure Free, Vacuum, Boom, Virtual Piano and the Organ one. Forget the soundcard sounds.

Create an instrument track in PT. Instantiate one of the VI's you already have on there. Say Virtual Piano. Import your MIDI track from Sibelius and put the MIDI notes on that track. You should be able to hear the piano play back whatever you have there. If you want other sounds, try Structure Free or Xpand...both come with great sample libraries of sounds.

If you still want to somehow 'blend' in the sounds from the Sibelius wavs...just import those to separate audio tracks and then pull the fader all the way down. As you play back the VI, raise the level on the audio track fader until you get the blend you want.

How to create and install instrument tracks and VI's is all covered in depth in the manual. There's also a TON of free how to vids on Youtube and over at ProToolsExpert.com