Latency and system configuration help!

[eaglecanyon1952]

I am new to PT, been using Cubase and now jumped in to PT and having a little issue.
My set up is I am using a Windows 7 premium Dell Computer and currently it only has 12GB of ram installed (can go 16 max) it's a I7 2600 3.4ghz processor. Samsung ssd boot and Os drive and 7200 rpm secondary drives.

At the moment I am using Protools with my Sony DMXr100 digital mixer, where I use the Sony as my preamps and direct output to protools via RME Raydat and ADAT lightpipes. I currently track at 48k exclusively. I then Output Protools back to the Sony to mix on the board (just because I am use to the good old console setups)... and it is working quite well.

Everything seems to be working fine and actually sounds great.... the problem comes when you start to pile on the plugins and begin overdubs (mainly vocals) that's where the latency starts to pile up. ( have the system set at 256. If I lower the buffer I get the pops and clicks... if I start to trun off the plugins it gets better. While mixing with the higher buffer it works fine for mixing.....

To get around this I find if I let the singer listen to the input rather than the routed signal thru protools we have no problem so that has been the way I've got around that particular problem.

Now for the big question, one of the engineers working with me says it's all just a memory problem and if I get more system memory that problem will go away... but, my current system will max out at 16 gb and I'm not sure the difference between 12 and 16gb willl be that much help and I can not go above 16gb.

My next choice is to replace the PC (can not go mac right now) so I am lookng at a new PC which will be windows 10 (Pro?) or home, minimum 32 gb with a max of 64gb. The new 8xxx cpu 3.xx up to 4.2 ghz. I'll run a SSD for OS and programs. I'll add 7200 rpm storage drives. and so on.

The question I have is will building up a new system with more memory, faster CPU cure the Plug in Latency problem... Or is it just the fact of my configuration using the Sony board as my interface with the RME cards and changing the amount or ram and cpu won't really help in my situation.

Right now I am limited to PT 12 because of my windows 7 so, going to a new computer and Windows 10 I can upgrade to PT 2018 if I want.

Of course a complete change out to MAC with a more recent interface like Apogee would fix the situation but that is a much larger jump than what I want to spend right now! It would mean a complete change out of the system and remove the Sony completely...

I know alot of you folks have good experience on configurations and PC systems I"d like to get your opinion and ideas on this... Will more memory and cpu actually help or is it because of my interface with the Sony I'll never get rid of that latency while using ProTools?

I need to get this squared away and a new computer on order if that will be the solution, so, any help will be greatly appreciated.

[albee1952]

To appreciate where this is coming from, you have 2 things to look at:
#1-playback buffer(256 is too high for anyone tracking and listening to audio from the session). With a Native system(non-HD or HDX card-based), you need to record at a short(low) buffer, and the 64 setting is what I track with.


#2-piling on the plugins....totally depends on what plugins. In the VIEW menu, select Mix Window Shows>Delay Compensation. This adds a row near the bottom of the MIX window where you can see any latency that is caused by plugins. Some will have 0 or near-0 while others might have 630 samples(Waves JJP Drum plugin), 1178 samples(UAD with a PCIe card) or even higher for any plugin with "look-ahead" processing(like mastering plugins or noise gates with the option). While tracking, I don't use any plugin with more than 7 samples(my Amplitube amp sim). Any plugin with more than, say 64 samples of latency is going to cause players to feel like they are hearing an echo or doubling on everything(moral of the story, make high-latency plugins inactive while tracking musicians). And, just in case this is new to you, be aware that a plugin that is bypassed, still causes the same latency. Right-click and Make Inactive will eliminate any latency from that plugin


FYI- Delay Compensation works by finding the track with the most latency and adding delay to every other track so they all match. IOW, compensation can't get rid of latency, it only makes all tracks stay in time with each other

[eaglecanyon1952]

Albee1952, Thanks for your reply and I"ll take a look at the plug in numbers, and yes, the latency gets worse with each plug in.

Are you saying it isn't a lack of memory that is causing this and that if I were to add on more memory and update the processor it won't help? I was thinking of buying a new Dell I7 8930 system and put in either 32gb or 64 Gb of system memory... (the processor would also be faster than my current computer). Like I said, the 12GB on my system I'm told is too low. Since I can not add memory to my current system that means it's time to get a new computer....

if there is anyone in the Nashville area I"d like to hear from you and see what kind of system you are hooked up with.

Dave

I have seen many folks and configurations using the RME card like mine and they are working with a similar set up and it's working fine..

My system is tracking great recording multiple channels and playing them back with no problem or clicks... The issue come in with the Overdubs ... One way I can handle it, I just let the singer listen to the input on the board that is in time... Its just that when playing back thru the ProTools and listening after the plugins we get that delay. This would be a major problem if I had to do multiple overdubs at the same time.

Thanks for the directions on how to check the latency, samples and performance. I am new to all this protools set up and playback.

One question comes to mind, if there is anyone using an analog console with converters and the RME I'd like to hear from you... (Windows PC's) and what ram you are using.

Dave

[Darryl Ramm]

Post a Sandra report (see “help us help you” top of every DUC web page).

Nobody here can guess if things like memory is an issue, we have no idea what your sessions look like.

Fully optimize your system.

In the playback engine dialogue, make sure ignore errors is not checked, dynamic plugin processing is not set, try disk cache is set to some value say 2GB (yes even with not much memory) to see if disk is your issue. Do all the usual basic troubleshooting, trash prefs, check plugins are up to date, etc.

What exact pro tools AAE crashes do you then get?

Give up on the digital mixer. You have a much better mixer in the box. Interfacing through all this and trying to overdub makes your life harder than it needs to be. And has now got you into this unclear thrashing around mode looking to solve something... (you will likely make much better progress by being very focused on more systemic debugging following the standard troubleshooting steps... folks giving you advice might or might not be right, if they are really technical and can look at your PC and explain how they know what they are saying, or do things like the standard troubleshooting steps then they may be with listening to. If they are just throwing comments at you, ... may be best to ignore). And you are very likely to be better off in the long term simplifying things as much as you can.

Look at plugin latency as suggested.

Reduce number or plugins in use while overdubbing and/or freeze tracks so you can run at a lower buffer size.

Especially if all this is worth your money/effort/business to you do not just go buy a Dell, go buy a PC professional built for Pro Tools. You can ask here for recommendations.. PC tech savvy folks can also find discussions on DUC for building their own PCs.

[albee1952]

Re RAM, I did plenty of low-latency tracking on my older systems with 6-12GB of RAM so it is not a factor(unless your computer is running out of power). As for 32GB vs 64GB, on my last X79/6-core system, I started with 32GB and doubled it after about 8 months, and to be honest, I did not feel any significant improvement(and actually pulled the extra 32GB for a second computer)


Another way to do last-minute overdubs:
Bounce the entire song(from zero) at the same sample rate and bit depth and import after bounce. Nudge this new "2-mix" so that it aligns perfectly with the rest of the session. Make all track inactive(EXCEPT for the 2-mix track) and record your last minute overdubs. Then kill the 2-mix track and activate the rest for mix

[eaglecanyon1952]

Thanks again for the information, I"ll be looking over that information and running the tests suggested.. .I will probably go out to the studio this afternoon and see what I can come out with. That should tell me alot about what I can and cannot do.

As I mentioned before, our initial tracking and mixing seems to work just fine...where I started to hear it is once we had the song mixed and the vocalist want's to re cut a vocal....

So, of course someone that does not use a console and everything in the box is pointing to my console set up.. so< I"m trying to find a way to make it work... the Sony is a wonderful board and great converters...so, I want to make it work.. ( I have no problem running Cubase 9.5 under the same set up).

[EGS]

Great advice above !!! Before replacing your computer, carefully follow every step mentioned above and determine if your current computer meets your needs. If you buy a new computer, you'll still need to perform all these simple optimizations, so you might as well optimize your current rig first. If your rig is properly tweaked out, you can get decent results. I even run an "antiquated" rig (Pro-Tools 9 Vanilla, i7 hex @ 3.9 Ghz) at buffer 64.