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  #1  
Old 10-21-2016, 10:32 PM
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Kris75 Kris75 is offline
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Default Drum Midi Libraries

Hey everyone,

I am in the middle of creating a midi library for my upcoming drum sample library (Powered by Accent), and was wondering, if you could have 1 thing in a midi groove library, what would it be?

I have some really cool things already added that are quite a bit different than most midi groove libraries (you will love these:), but I would like to get your opinion too!

Thanks in advance! I really think we have something quite unique here and just want to make sure that we pay close attention to what people really want.
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Old 10-22-2016, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

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Originally Posted by Kris75 View Post
...if you could have 1 thing in a midi groove library, what would it be?...
  • Real human performances
  • Full length performances(no copy/paste)
  • If they're Pattern/Section based, make them longer than 4-8 bars
  • Record the MIDI performance on a system that has sample accurate jitter free MIDI(Sorry, but that wont be Pro Tools).
Nothing quantized, and no "humanize/randomize" algorithms applied. If someone wants it quantized, it's easy to do on their own. Nothing copy/pasted. The user can do that on their end if they want that "copy/paste sound". If they're going to be pattern/section based, then make them more than 4-8 bars. 32-64 bars, or longer, played all the way through.

Shane
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2016, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

+1

I've quite a lot of midi grooves already, but the two things i'd like more of are ...

1) midi recordings of full performances, without any copied/pasted info, just played for real from start to finish, and

2) a wider range of variations, to assist with song construction, not just 8th hh, 16th hh, ride instead etc., but to include versions with and without ghost notes and other embellishments. A much wider variety of fills would be useful, with multiple choices for one beat, two beat, one bar and two bar fills. And why not three beats, one bar + one beat, one bar + two beats etc etc.

Probably the best advice I could give is that for it to be worth buying (for me at least), there would have be enough variations, and enough gradual development from simple to complex and, separately, soft to loud, that I can construct what I want from it without having to also spend hours fiddling with it to get it just how I want it ... If I have to spend that much time on it, I may as well build it from scratch myself.

Let us know when its available to have a listen to.
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  #4  
Old 10-22-2016, 08:42 PM
john1192 john1192 is offline
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris75 View Post
Hey everyone,

I am in the middle of creating a midi library for my upcoming drum sample library (Powered by Accent), and was wondering, if you could have 1 thing in a midi groove library, what would it be?

I have some really cool things already added that are quite a bit different than most midi groove libraries (you will love these:), but I would like to get your opinion too!

Thanks in advance! I really think we have something quite unique here and just want to make sure that we pay close attention to what people really want.
hey Kris, 3/4, 6/8, 12/8 time ... i find there is just not enough of these ...

cheers john
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2016, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

When you guys say full performances, do you mean full "song" performances? If so, should those be in multiple time sigs using classic lines?

We already have piece specific lines. Would you also like piece specific lines for entire songs?
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  #6  
Old 10-22-2016, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

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Originally Posted by john1192 View Post
hey Kris, 3/4, 6/8, 12/8 time ... i find there is just not enough of these ...

cheers john
This is already in the pipeline
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  #7  
Old 10-22-2016, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

I agree with all the above .., but is it just me as no matter what song I am writing - I start with a ballpark beat in exy drummer , and as the song starts taking shape I always tend to go back and look for more suitable beats, but this always has me chopping away at bits and pieces of beats (ie; copy and paste) as I try to make them suit my instrumentation.

.., this gets me to a closer ball park, to which I then need to consolidate this mix match (in ezy drummer) and export it to Pro tools midi editor, where I can start the real editing.
Sometimes this even goes back into exy drummer after P.T midi editor for more changes ..., my eventual final result goes to Superior Drummer

The only way I can avoid this multiple carving up of Midi beats :
.., is if I start writing the song around the given beat, but this ends up entirely changing the creative path for me in a way that I dont like , re: direction / mood / feel of what i wanted to achieve in the first place, especially the melodies.


I have the hugest midi collection under the sun, and not once have I found myself being able to just drag in say a whole verse and just drag in a fill to it and go "wallah it fits" and be satisfied (I wish I could) ..,
Maybe thats just how I write ? .., and maybe it's just a drilled in habit from my early days writing original music in bands with real drummers where I'd write a song then present it to the drummer and we'd nut it out (so to speak) ie; in the days before we had all this helpful technology to play with.

Does anyone else find this happening to them ?
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Old 10-22-2016, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris75 View Post
When you guys say full performances, do you mean full "song" performances?...
Whether a beat of 16 bars or a full song, the performance would be played from beginning to end. No copy/paste, or punching in etc. Played from start to finish.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #9  
Old 10-23-2016, 08:47 AM
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Kris75 Kris75 is offline
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafoam_Green View Post
I agree with all the above .., but is it just me as no matter what song I am writing - I start with a ballpark beat in exy drummer , and as the song starts taking shape I always tend to go back and look for more suitable beats, but this always has me chopping away at bits and pieces of beats (ie; copy and paste) as I try to make them suit my instrumentation.

.., this gets me to a closer ball park, to which I then need to consolidate this mix match (in ezy drummer) and export it to Pro tools midi editor, where I can start the real editing.
Sometimes this even goes back into exy drummer after P.T midi editor for more changes ..., my eventual final result goes to Superior Drummer

The only way I can avoid this multiple carving up of Midi beats :
.., is if I start writing the song around the given beat, but this ends up entirely changing the creative path for me in a way that I dont like , re: direction / mood / feel of what i wanted to achieve in the first place, especially the melodies.


I have the hugest midi collection under the sun, and not once have I found myself being able to just drag in say a whole verse and just drag in a fill to it and go "wallah it fits" and be satisfied (I wish I could) ..,
Maybe thats just how I write ? .., and maybe it's just a drilled in habit from my early days writing original music in bands with real drummers where I'd write a song then present it to the drummer and we'd nut it out (so to speak) ie; in the days before we had all this helpful technology to play with.

Does anyone else find this happening to them ?
I feel the same way, and that is why we are also creating piece specific midi files. These will have rolls, different hat patterns, kick patterns, ect. That way you can find a feel and add in the rest
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Drum Midi Libraries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris75 View Post
When you guys say full performances, do you mean full "song" performances? If so, should those be in multiple time sigs using classic lines?

We already have piece specific lines. Would you also like piece specific lines for entire songs?
Yes, full song performances, but with lots of options for various degrees of complexity for each section.

The problem is that talking about it is quite abstract .... I started writing something describing my thoughts about how i'd like to see it presented so it was intuitive to me, but it gets very complex very quickly!

If I were doing this I'd probably try to break it down into chunks that can be easily described and defined, so everything will have to be categorised in some standard way.

Questions ...
Do you start off with song style, then time signature?

Do you allow options to cater for changes in time signature (eg 7/4 verses and 4/4 choruses), and in such a way that if you place a 7/4 verse option and a 4/4 verse option adjacent they still sound like they are working together correctly?

How many different song 'sections' will you cater for (even though they may well not all be used in a given song) .... eg count in, intro, verse 1 intro, verse 1, verse 2 intro, verse 2, bridge 1, chorus 1, chorus 1 outro, verse 3 intro, verse 3, bridge 2, chorus 2, chorus 2 outro, middle 1, middle 2, verse breakdown, chorus breakdown, verse 4 intro, verse 4, bridge 3, chorus 3, chorus 4, chourus 3/4 outro, end?

Do you cater for intros that start part way through a bar, eg on 3and?

How long might each section be ... 2/4/8/16 bar?

Do you keep fills separate, and have a (eg) 16 bar verse 2 that has no fills but has (say) a slight ramp up in complexity every 4 bars? While not ramping up within any 4 bar section? Versions with and without ghost notes?

Or are the fills integrated into a pattern called verse 2, and do you provide multiple verse 2 options with different fills at different points, but done consistently enough that you can cut the various verse 2 files up into shorter segments and then construct your own verse 2 to suit!

Do you make fill patterns a standard length, say 2 bars, so we always know how much to cut out of the 'normal' pattern to make room, but then have various length fills within that ... 1beat, 2beats, 3beats, 4beats etc?

If those fill patterns have 'none fill' material at the beginning, do they need to match the 'normal' pattern at the obvious places they might be used?

So, sticking with verse 1, for example, we have 16 bars split into 4x 4 bar sections with no fills included, but with each section ramping up a little in complexity, and a variety of 2 bar length fill patterns that can replace the last 2 bars of each 4 bar verse section, with the actual fills inside those two bar patterns being anything from 1 beat to 1 bar, and the rest of the 2 bar fill pattern matching what happens in the first two bars of each 4 bar verse section.

Then let's say you do all this for one song, eg a rock song. You then need to do another dozen or so rock songs, and, ideally, it'd be nice if (eg) verse 1 of song 1 could go into chorus 1 of song 3, then bridge 1 of song 4 and back into verse intro 2 of song 1, smoothly!

Like I say, it gets very complex very quickly.

And this is why, as Seafoam says, most times, even with well constructed midi files, it remains hard to find the right fit, unless you decide on the beat first and write around that. If you start by writing the song, and then look for suitable midi drums to fit, and especially if you do not conform to very basic song structures, sections lengths and time signatures, it can take many hours of painful tweaking to achieve what you want.

So, I guess, if you want to stand out from the crowd, my suggestion would be to make many more variations available within a single song, and yet still be able to mix and match any of those variations and still have it sound coherent.
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