low latency recording vs low hardware buffer size recording

[chrisdee]

Hello. After I upgraded to PT8 I feel there is more delay while recording at hardware buffer size (HWB) of 64 samples compared to same HWB setting on PT7.4.

From the time I pick a note on my guitar to I actually hear it though the speakers there is a pretty large delay. For me it sounds like 64 samples in PT8 equals 512 in PT7.4.

This gives me big timing problems. So the only solution is to record in low latency monitoring (wich is great cause there is no delay).

The problem with this again is that effects is byassed. So if am making a rock session wich "screaming" overdrive guitar tracks, I have to record dry (with not so screaming ovedrive guitar). Riffs doesnt sound so powerfull with dry guitars going right into my Mbox2 Pro. Neither does a solo guitar part for that matter.

This applies also for vocals and dynamics/limiter. The problems here is that my vocalist has a powerfull but dynamic voice wich recorded in low latency monitoring mode often introduces clipping while recording. It pretty terrible when this happens because she lose concentration and we have to start recording all over again. Turning the input volume on my mbox2 pro down to much (so clipping wount occure) is not a solution either cause then she can't hear herself sing.

I guess outboard gear is the only solution ?

[chrisdee]

Hi again. I'v been searching around a bit for a high end mic preamp/compressor combo that will greatly improve my vocal and guitar recordings befor going into the Mbox2 Pro. I have basically put a button on one of the 3 following :

- UA LA610 MKII
- UA 6176
- Focusrite Voice Master Pro.

If price is not an object, wich of the above can you recommend ?
I see the UA 6176 is 3 times the price of Focusrite Voice Master Pro.
Unless it is 3 times "better" i guess is silly to waste money.

Note I will be using it with my shure KSM 32 Condenser mic and my Fender Robben Ford and Vigier Excalibur guitars befor going into the Mbox2 Pro.
I'll maby get a Neumann TLM 49 mic at a later stage.

Any suggestions are greatly apreciated.

[barstool719]

for your first post, put your guitar on an aux track and buss it to an audio track in LLM mode. this way you can still hear the plugin.

the 610 is a nice pre, and focusrite doesnt suck either.

[albee1952]

For my money, the 6176 is the best of those 3 and the VM is the worst(I've never been a fan of the Platinum series). But for that money, you really have lots of choices. How about a Grace pre thru a Distressor?

Back to the latency QQ, are you using plugins on your tracks while recording? If so, maybe you are choosing plugins that have lots of latency so try others. For instance, the BF76 feels like zero latency while the Waves Rcomp has a noticeable amount. In any case, I just recorded a 4 piece band with my rig on PT8 with the 128 buffer(64 choked it with 16 tracks, several plugins and 4 aux sends on each track for phone mixes) and no one said a word about latency(and 2 of the players have Pro Tools at home).

[therecordinghouse]

Originally Posted by barstool719

for your first post, put your guitar on an aux track and buss it to an audio track in LLM mode. this way you can still hear the plugin.

you should probably read up on LLM. this information is incorrect.

[tamasdragon]

Why not go down to 32buffer? It's perfect for tracking, and even you can use some plugs if you need to.
Tamas Dragon

[chrisdee]

32 samples is this possible ?

I can't se that as an option. It only goes to 64 samples to me.

[tamasdragon]

What sample rate do you record at? I'm sure it's available at 44.1 and 48k.
But even 64buffer can be good enough, and that is available even at 96kHz.
Tamas Dragon

[bob duster]

I personally have never experienced any problems with recording 18 ins at the same time with a buffer setting at 32. I wouldn't see where you would have any problems recording thru/with FX at 32 if you where just doing a guitar track at a time either, Do you have any instrument tracks running at the same time?(i.e samplers, beats, keys, bass?) If so, that may be why you can't run the guitar FX while recording.
As far as the vocal clipping thing there are a number of solutions for that, I would first suggest making an entirely different headphone mix and sending that to the singer, make sure the vox are cranked going back to them though. Remember you have a fader that goes all the way to +12 on your analog outs in your aux window, use it.
By sending the vox hot back to the singer in a seperate headphone mix you then can lower your pre coming in to prevent clipping and have your own monitor mix as well! Hope this helps

[chrisdee]

Thanks I however have two more questions. Why is not hardware buffer size of 32 samples not avalible to me ? The lowest I can choose is 64 samples. I record sometimes at 44 KHz or 48Khz both 24 bit.

Question number two. I went out today and bought the UA LA610 preamp from my local music shop. It was on sale for $1738 dollars. They usually take $2800 dollars for it here in Norway. Anyway. I'v been testing it connected to my Mic/Line In 1 (on the back of my Mbox2 Pro).

As I said Iv been testing it with my Vigier Excalibur guitar. First recording though the LA610, then directly into the Mbox2 Pro.

I'v been switching back and forth several times and recorded. Both clean and with the sansamp pluging in PT8. And dissapointingly I cant hear no difference. I was hoping for a jaw dropping experience considering the price of this preamp but no.

I wonder if am doing anyting wrong here. Shouldn't I be hearing a big "better" difference ?