new pro tools is not as good

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by mightyduck

Ha, ha. Are they, by any chance, the ones advertised in the white paper / promo sheet? : )

I'd have to find the doc that explained what was on them again, I had stumbled on it a week after the HDX came out but I don't remember where exactly.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by mightyduck

Here, I found this on their FAQ:

7. Q: How can I run Logic 9.1 as a 64 bit Application?

A: Right click on the application in Finder (or Command + i) to open the information window, in which there is a checkbox option to launch in 32 or 64-bit.It is set to 32 bit by default, uncheck to launch Logic 9.1 in 64 bit mode. Please note, some of the oldest Intel macs, such as the first core duo iMacs, Mac Minis, Mac Books and Mac Books Pro from 2006, cannot run 64 bit Apps, neither is this possible with the Core Solo Mac Mini. All Mac Pros and Core 2 Duo equipped Macs can run Logic 9.1 as a 64 bit Application.

http://www.logic-users-group.com/index.php?q=126.html

That's not what he's asking. He's asking if Logic is in fact using 64 bit floating points audio processing. Not if Logic is can be run as a 64 bit application to access more memory (which as of yet, about half of the Logic functionality are still 64 incompatible and must be run as a 32 bit application)

[mightyduck]

Originally Posted by dave911

http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/L...tingdither.pdf

I was going to upload a file from Rane that also deals with float vs. fixed, but this forum doesn't appear to allow uploads.

Yeah, Nika's paper may have started all the controversy. Ha, ha.

[mightyduck]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

That's not what he's asking. He's asking if Logic is in fact using 64 bit floating points audio processing. Not if Logic is can be run as a 64 bit application to access more memory (which as of yet, about half of the Logic functionality are still 64 incompatible and must be run as a 32 bit application)

I though we already answered that. ???

fwiw, I think Sonar might actually use 64 bit files, right?

[rockridge]

So, let me get this straight... as soon as 64 bit Protools is released we reach nirvana?

Don't tell me in 5 years we'll be having the same discussion, but about 128 bit DAWS?

Just think, in 20 years we will create music thru thought transference... recording directly to crystals!

[dave911]

Error 97286: You are running out of crystal processing power, try increasing crystal buffer size.

[Numi]

I believe Reaper was one of the few if not only DAW's to be coded from the ground up using 64-bit audio processing from end to end(and allows recording of 64-bit audio files).. or at least off the top of my head..

I wonder what Reaper would sound like using the same hardware as HDX in comparison with PT10HD?

And I guess, while we are on topic of bits and such... I have to ask myself why it is so easy for Reaper to be 64-bit from end to end without issue.. and Many other DAW's have not caught up or just don't seem to care? Is it because the the sound quality or difference is negligible when compared? I'm not sure, I'm far from an expert in programming... but I trust my ears.. and I prefer the sound of my Pro Tools rig over my old Cubase 5 system or Reaper 4(more from functionality with this though).

Maybe it is time for Pro Tools to make the jump from not only 64-bit application, but 64-bit audio processing from end to end also... that would truly bring it up to date and leave little room for argument.

I guess it is whatever works for you and your workflow and whatever sounds best to you... but I have to agree, if Pro Tools 10 HD is being advertised as the best sounding version to date... and the science speaks otherwise.. maybe it's time for a new marketing campaign.

[zion]

Originally Posted by Numi

I believe Reaper was one of the few if not only DAW's to be coded from the ground up using 64-bit audio processing from end to end(and allows recording of 64-bit audio files).. or at least off the top of my head..

I wonder what Reaper would sound like using the same hardware as HDX in comparison with PT10HD?

And I guess, while we are on topic of bits and such... I have to ask myself why it is so easy for Reaper to be 64-bit from end to end without issue.. and Many other DAW's have not caught up or just don't seem to care? Is it because the the sound quality or difference is negligible when compared? I'm not sure, I'm far from an expert in programming... but I trust my ears.. and I prefer the sound of my Pro Tools rig over my old Cubase 5 system or Reaper 4(more from functionality with this though).

Maybe it is time for Pro Tools to make the jump from not only 64-bit application, but 64-bit audio processing from end to end also... that would truly bring it up to date and leave little room for argument.

I guess it is whatever works for you and your workflow and whatever sounds best to you... but I have to agree, if Pro Tools 10 HD is being advertised as the best sounding version to date... and the science speaks otherwise.. maybe it's time for a new marketing campaign.

Sonar was the first and like mightyduck has said it can even work with 64bit wave files imported or exported 64bit from end to end, but with all of that my ears still prefer the sound of Pro Tools 10 and the new HD hardware. Theres much more going on here than just bits.

[Greg Malcangi]

Originally Posted by mightyduck

You're wrong about that. You are also being misleading by trying to redefine the terms of the argument. We are not talking only about ""signals that are "aimed" at fixed point conversions"". Are we? And even those signals cannot be actually dithered because the damage is already done, and it is generally going to be written into the file way above the least significant bit. So how are you going to dither that? Are you going to try to use TPDF at some ridiculous level? No.

So those 24 bit fixed files, or 32 bit float files in your 32 bit float app. are going to have quantization error at various and sundry amplitudes. Unditherable.

"The distinction between fixed and float is that you can dither fixed but you cannot dither float... But its not that float "doesn't need dither", just that dither doesn't work for floating point." - Mightyduck

"The assumption that float cannot be dithered is simply wrong!" - Paul Frindle

"As far as I'm concerned, unless you wish to argue with a real DSP designer like Jim Johnston, Glenn Zelniker, Daniel Weiss and such... there is NO problem with dithering of floating point signals if you reserve the dithering for the final step and when the signal is of a known level and must be converted to fixed point AT THAT TIME." - Bob Katz

From what I learnt in discussion with Nika many years ago and from his subsequent paper; under certain circumstances there are potential difficulties when dithering 32bit float. But getting from this position to essentially stating that dithering floating point is impossible is a huge leap of inaccuracy! You want to misrepresent Nika, disbelieve Bob Katz and question Paul Frindle's integrity? If so, you're making a serious mistake as these are some of the most respected experts on the planet. If you want anyone to believe your word in preference to these experts, you're going to need a sh*tload of evidence, a few insults and stating that I don't know what I'm talking about is not going to cut it!

[DRC Music]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

That's not what he's asking. He's asking if Logic is in fact using 64 bit floating points audio processing. Not if Logic is can be run as a 64 bit application to access more memory (which as of yet, about half of the Logic functionality are still 64 incompatible and must be run as a 32 bit application)

Yes... Logic only has 22 features and when these 11 features ("about half") are lost in 64 bit mode... its totally worthless :roll eyes:

Logic +1000's of features - 11 features = half of Logic does not work = LIE

I know your a Mac/Logic hater but PLEASE stop making up lies

Straight from the Apple website is the list of whats lost... and to get it ALL back you just simply tick a box

The following features are available only when running Logic Pro 9.1 or later, or Logic Express 9.1.1 or later in 32-bit mode.

Firewire streaming of video
Digital Cinema Desktop
OMF import and export
Recycle (REX) file support
ReWire support
Vienna Symphonic Library Tool
Logic Node processing
AKAI format sample import
Internal Apple QuickTime Synthesizer
Export audio to movie
Transport controls in movie window