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  #261  
Old 07-17-2019, 06:08 AM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

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Originally Posted by LDS View Post
Totally! I have all the time in the world for Dirk, PA and their continued support of AAX-DSP. I don't really see what all the fuss is about the subscription plan. Nothing has really changed at my end. Same plugins, work well and sound great. What else really matters? What is happening on GS is pretty weird. It's like a lynch mob trying to drive prices down. I can't figure it out. It's like Dirk has become a victim of his own generousity... how that actually puts him in the wrong, I don't know.
The whole episode cannot be characterised as a simple introduction of a subscription plan. If it was, it'd be cool. Instead, it was the tactics used to do so.

The tactic used was a straight talk personal letter broadcast to the masses of customers. To paraphrase, there going to be new products, lower prices and exciting new programs amd the unbelievable deal of a lifetime. They even sent letters out the night before. What do we see? These introductory prices on new products for "heavy hitters" twice as much as they would have been and the deal of the lifetime is a not cheap subscription package.

it's the entirety of the situation. We feel lied to, maybe more insulted, like when a company tries it's best to put a positive spin on what is in effect a pay decrease to it's employees.

So what if he simply started offering a subscription price for those who wanted one? That would have been fine. Did anyone bitch when East/West started offering subscriptions? I didn't hear anything. Who else did it - maybe McDsp(?) - someone else did something similar. An alternative revenue stream is fine and dandy. Congratulations for your keen endeavor. nope. We get marketing hype and BS to the point where it would have been easier to clear up if they had decided to shove ice cream cones up our butts. At least then we would not have been lied to in the fashion of a snake oil salesman at a carnival.

For the record, I've been - make that - I was a strong supporter of theirs.
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  #262  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:20 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

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Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker View Post
The whole episode cannot be characterised as a simple introduction of a subscription plan. If it was, it'd be cool. Instead, it was the tactics used to do so.

The tactic used was a straight talk personal letter broadcast to the masses of customers. To paraphrase, there going to be new products, lower prices and exciting new programs amd the unbelievable deal of a lifetime. They even sent letters out the night before. What do we see? These introductory prices on new products for "heavy hitters" twice as much as they would have been and the deal of the lifetime is a not cheap subscription package.

it's the entirety of the situation. We feel lied to, maybe more insulted, like when a company tries it's best to put a positive spin on what is in effect a pay decrease to it's employees.

So what if he simply started offering a subscription price for those who wanted one? That would have been fine. Did anyone bitch when East/West started offering subscriptions? I didn't hear anything. Who else did it - maybe McDsp(?) - someone else did something similar. An alternative revenue stream is fine and dandy. Congratulations for your keen endeavor. nope. We get marketing hype and BS to the point where it would have been easier to clear up if they had decided to shove ice cream cones up our butts. At least then we would not have been lied to in the fashion of a snake oil salesman at a carnival.

For the record, I've been - make that - I was a strong supporter of theirs.
Same here. I'm waiting to see what the price will be on the B15 in August and that'll be the last I buy from them. Been a purchaser of their stuff for a couple of years now and while there's some good stuff I and many others don't like being thrown under the bus like has happened. When I started this thread back in February to hip people to their low prices I had no idea PA would turn into the Frankenstein's monster it has become.

For those that don't know or haven't checked the GS thread there's a bunch of updates for various PA plugins. Best bet is to go to the Installation Manager and grab what you need.
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  #263  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:34 PM
jsvalmont jsvalmont is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

Devils advocate here: To be fair to PA, the price of their subscription is on par or lower than Slate but with way more plugins, most of which are AAX DSP supported. They also add new products and Alliance partner brands at an incredible rate that far outpaces Slate. I think they actually rolled it out kinda smartly in how they released 6 really desirable plugins simultaneously which provided value to the subscription option for every PA user regardless of how many plugins they already had.
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  #264  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:53 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker View Post
The whole episode cannot be characterised as a simple introduction of a subscription plan. If it was, it'd be cool. Instead, it was the tactics used to do so.

The tactic used was a straight talk personal letter broadcast to the masses of customers. To paraphrase, there going to be new products, lower prices and exciting new programs amd the unbelievable deal of a lifetime. They even sent letters out the night before. What do we see? These introductory prices on new products for "heavy hitters" twice as much as they would have been and the deal of the lifetime is a not cheap subscription package.

it's the entirety of the situation. We feel lied to, maybe more insulted, like when a company tries it's best to put a positive spin on what is in effect a pay decrease to it's employees.

So what if he simply started offering a subscription price for those who wanted one? That would have been fine. Did anyone bitch when East/West started offering subscriptions? I didn't hear anything. Who else did it - maybe McDsp(?) - someone else did something similar. An alternative revenue stream is fine and dandy. Congratulations for your keen endeavor. nope. We get marketing hype and BS to the point where it would have been easier to clear up if they had decided to shove ice cream cones up our butts. At least then we would not have been lied to in the fashion of a snake oil salesman at a carnival.

For the record, I've been - make that - I was a strong supporter of theirs.
There is no correlation between a marketing email by a plugin company and an employer cutting an employee's wages. That really embodies the absurdity of a lot of the arguments people are trying to make.
Objectively, what has actually changed for you, your business or music making with this announcement and associated marketing emails?

I would suspect that the answer to that is probably a big, thick nadda. Yet here we are.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvalmont View Post
Devils advocate here: To be fair to PA, the price of their subscription is on par or lower than Slate but with way more plugins, most of which are AAX DSP supported. They also add new products and Alliance partner brands at an incredible rate that far outpaces Slate. I think they actually rolled it out kinda smartly in how they released 6 really desirable plugins simultaneously which provided value to the subscription option for every PA user regardless of how many plugins they already had.
I have no interest in subscription plugins, but they are a value-adding service. They are releasing another eight plugins over the coming month or two. Regardless of how many plugins you own, the subscription and it's precieved value will be a lot different in even 3 months time.

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Last edited by LDS; 07-17-2019 at 03:04 PM.
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  #265  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:31 PM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDS View Post
There is no correlation between a marketing email by a plugin company and an employer cutting an employee's wages. That really embodies the absurdity of a lot of the arguments people are trying to make.
Objectively, what has actually changed for you, your business or music making with this announcement and associated marketing emails?

I would suspect that the answer to that is probably a big, thick nadda. Yet here we are.
Thanks for the attacks. It's very clear to me that you do not understand straight talk as opposed to the spin talk fluff talk that folks try to use when selling something or are trying better their situations at the expense of others who would be in better shape if they didn't do as asked. This is the sort of spin-talk that we've been getting from folks, and we are getting sick of it. Maybe you don't get this where you are. it's the TALK that I am illustrating. i get offended when these little partial truths are offered to me. Why? Dishonesty.
if you want to start taking my statements apart and attacking them with statements that are truly irrelevant, well, there's no law I guess. Buy you're wrong. Or is this what you do??? Critisize a guy talking about bananas because he used oranges as an example.

i leave you with one question. Do you like being BS'd?

Everything I said was spot on. The point you made about how it effects my music lacked the very relevance you claim to champion.

Good luck.I'm done with you.
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  #266  
Old 07-18-2019, 04:41 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvalmont View Post
Devils advocate here: To be fair to PA, the price of their subscription is on par or lower than Slate but with way more plugins, most of which are AAX DSP supported. They also add new products and Alliance partner brands at an incredible rate that far outpaces Slate. I think they actually rolled it out kinda smartly in how they released 6 really desirable plugins simultaneously which provided value to the subscription option for every PA user regardless of how many plugins they already had.
It's not so much the price of the subscription that's the issue here. Those 6 new plugins are priced so that PA is pushing people towards subscriptions and not buying individual plugins and owning them forever. That's but part of the issue. Look at those prices and if you're a 'heavy hitter' in PA's parlance where you are supposed to get an even better discount and you'll see the intro prices are nowheres near as low as they used to be for new plugins. To know this you have to have history with PA. If you're new to their ecosystem then what they're doing might seem okay to you.

If you buy marketing BS then it'll seem okay do you. What PA did is no 'best deal ever' as they said in their emails. A lot of the sourness over this new system has to do with the rollout and their 'new, lower pricing' as Dirk talked about in one of their emails. It's like the old TV pitchman Crazy Eddie would say in his commercials: "Our prices are INSANE!!!!!!!' Tjhose outside the Northeast US might not know about him - make Google your friend to find out more.

Yeah PA will still offer plugins where you own them forever but for how long? Subscriptions suck.
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  #267  
Old 07-18-2019, 04:47 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker View Post
Thanks for the attacks. It's very clear to me that you do not understand straight talk as opposed to the spin talk fluff talk that folks try to use when selling something or are trying better their situations at the expense of others who would be in better shape if they didn't do as asked. This is the sort of spin-talk that we've been getting from folks, and we are getting sick of it. Maybe you don't get this where you are. it's the TALK that I am illustrating. i get offended when these little partial truths are offered to me. Why? Dishonesty.
if you want to start taking my statements apart and attacking them with statements that are truly irrelevant, well, there's no law I guess. Buy you're wrong. Or is this what you do??? Critisize a guy talking about bananas because he used oranges as an example.

i leave you with one question. Do you like being BS'd?

Everything I said was spot on. The point you made about how it effects my music lacked the very relevance you claim to champion.

Good luck.I'm done with you.
Some people believe everything is rosy and why should people complain when given a 'best deal ever'? LDS had to attack one's music making and how does this debacle affect it. It doesn't and he shouldn't have said what he did. He apparently doesn't understand what used to be in the PA ecosystem and what happened with this new system and why people are po'd about it.

I guess no one should ever complain about anything and just accept the bowl of gruel they're given when they used to get steak and potatoes.
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  #268  
Old 07-18-2019, 01:43 PM
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Muddy-T Muddy-T is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

But seriously folks, does anyone else think it's kinda funny -or at least slightly ironic- how the original title of this thread seems to have acquired quite a different meaning?



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  #269  
Old 07-18-2019, 01:53 PM
amagras amagras is offline
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

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Originally Posted by Muddy-T View Post
But seriously folks, does anyone else think it's kinda funny -or at least slightly ironic- how the original title of this thread seems to have acquired quite a different meaning?







T
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  #270  
Old 07-18-2019, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Plugin Alliance insanity

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