Lead Vocal always one track or multiple?

[bryced87]

I have a very cheap setup and can never get a single vocal track to sound loud enough. Is this because the setup I have just doesn't achieve this? It is because songs never have just one Vocal Track for Lead? Even if I am making a rap song it's not loud enough even though the levels are decent. Just trying to figure out what to do to correct this.

Does every song literally have another take or more layered (even for a rap song)???

[Park Seward]

Are you saying your speakers are not loud enough?

Where is the vocal hitting? Are you at the very top of the meter around -3?

Of course you can turn up your speakers and make a single vocal as loud as you want. Record the rest of the music at a lower level.

What do you mean by "decent levels"? Give me a reading from your meters.

"Pro Tools lets you choose from several industry standard meter types for visually monitoring audio levels. You can link the Track (audio, Auxiliary In- put, and Instrument tracks) and Master (Master Fader) meter settings, or you can set them inde- pendently of one another. The following Meter Type options are available:

Sample Peak Provides the default Pro Tools metering. Sample Peak metering is also the only Meter Type used for non-HD version of Pro Tools. The scale and the decay time is calculated in dB/second, which results in slower decay in meter- ing compared to lower versions of Pro Tools (such as Pro Tools 10). The Sample Peak option is the only Meter Type that has a 0 sample integration time, and as such shows all dynamic activity of the digital signal at every moment in time.
Pro Tools Classic Provides legacy Pro Tools scale and metering ballistics."

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[Wall2Wall]

Are you using 2 track instrumentals or instrumentals from records that are out? If you are turn them down. They are volume maxed and pinning at zero or a little over if you converted them from mp3's. Turn them down about -3 to -4 to give you some headroom. There are some eq things you can do to reduce the clutter on those 2 track instrumentals to make room for vocals to sit.

[Michael Zull]

What wall2wall said, if that's the case. 2 track masters are almost always, um, mastered really hot, brick walled to death. So if you are leaving that track at unity gain, your vocals have nowhere to go in your mix. Back off the level of the track to perhaps -10 and you'll get more (or in the case of brickwalled masters, ANY) headroom to get the vox up on top of the track. If you want to crush it again at mixdown you can add a limiter to your mixbuss and do so.

Common practice for me is just what I described, drop the 2 track in, pull it down to -10 or more, track vox, then mix.

[bryced87]

my vocal was recorded at -10db occasional peaks at -12 my music is recorded by me in Reason or acoustic or Electric Guitar at the same level. My studio monitors are a bit more than half way up and the master knob on my Mbox is half way up. The vocals sound low. If I copy the vocal track 4 times it sounds as loud as a regular mix would

[Darryl Ramm]

It seems you've been on DUC asking this same question from multiple different angles.

First pass: pull the levels down on all the other tracks, push the level up on your vocal track if you want to. TURN UP THE GAIN ON YOU POWER AMP (if it has a gain setting) OR POWERED MONITORS AS NEEDED. It really is that simple. Then you might work with bringing in compression, mastering, etc. later but you have all those faders and hopefully a big volume knob in front of you to get in a ballpark with.

Maybe you need more powerful monitors/power amp if you are not able to realtively easily get a track to a high enough output SPL. Try a good pair of headphones.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by bryced87

my vocal was recorded at -10db occasional peaks at -12 my music is recorded by me in Reason or acoustic or Electric Guitar at the same level. My studio monitors are a bit more than half way up and the master knob on my Mbox is half way up. The vocals sound low. If I copy the vocal track 4 times it sounds as loud as a regular mix would

Whay are you recording in Reason? Why not just record straight into PT instead?

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

It seems you've been on DUC asking this same question from multiple different angles.

First pass: pull the levels down on all the other tracks, push the level up on your vocal track if you want to. TURN UP THE GAIN ON YOU POWER AMP (if it has a gain setting) OR POWERED MONITORS AS NEEDED. It really is that simple. Then you might work with bringing in compression, mastering, etc. later but you have all those faders and hopefully a big volume knob in front of you to get in a ballpark with.

Maybe you need more powerful monitors/power amp if you are not able to realtively easily get a track to a high enough output SPL. Try a good pair of headphones.

I get the feeling his monitors are loud enough - most any monitor will get loud enough to ruin your hearing. It seems to be the relative levels of voice versus guitar or other instrument. Says he's recording the vocals in Reason; he'd be better off recording straight into PT. Then after the fact start with some compression in PT - perhaps an LA2A emulation.

Then of course there are other areas to look at for the op that might sound dumb but are worth mentioning:
Is 48v phantom power on?
Is there some kind of attenuator on the interface that might be on?
Is he singing into the correct side of the mic?

And the last thing: maybe his voice is just weak at the pitch range he's trying to hit? Sort of like Max Cavalera trying to sing in a Michael Jackson range?

[bryced87]

You guys asked where the instruments were recorded in reason. My drums are electric and I have synths from reason. My vocals and guitar are recorded in pro tools. Another weird thing is that even though my input level in pro tools is -10 to -12 there is hiss if I turn up the gain.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by bryced87

You guys asked where the instruments were recorded in reason. My drums are electric and I have synths from reason. My vocals and guitar are recorded in pro tools. Another weird thing is that even though my input level in pro tools is -10 to -12 there is hiss if I turn up the gain.

Thanks for the clarification as your previous explanation made it seem like you recorded your vocals in Reason.

Sure there will be hiss if you turn up the gain on your interface as it not only amplifies the voice signal but any noise in the system. That noise could be acoustic and it could also be due to cabling, the mic itself or even the interface electronics. Make sure you have properly wired XLR cables, that you don't have any attenuator on the mic engaged and make sure the phantom power is turned on.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by bryced87

You guys asked where the instruments were recorded in reason. My drums are electric and I have synths from reason. My vocals and guitar are recorded in pro tools. Another weird thing is that even though my input level in pro tools is -10 to -12 there is hiss if I turn up the gain.

In the past you have talked about having the preamp gain on an interface turned up high and reported what you thought was digital clipping. That may just be preamp distortion. Which as was mentioned in that thread can sound damn awful with the cheap solid state preamps in these interfaces. And may need to back that well off You need to find the sweet spot for the preamp gain that suits your mic and mic technique and then increase the level in Pro Tools. Reducing other relative levels as needed. The input gain is *not* a volume knob, don't try to use it like one. And don't fixate on hitting some high input level. Just get it to sound good on input.

You may want a better preamp or mic for what you are doing. Careful use of EQ on the mic input can help things sound better as well.

If you are already running with monitors turned up half way and can't get what you are describing to seem loud enough that tells me you are probably running out of useful SPL/headroom on those monitors. If you care so much about loudness/intensity you do not want to be mixing on a system where you need to drive things close to 0dBFS to perceive loudness/presence. What monitors are you using? Have you tried headphones? What ones? Got a good headphone amp? I hope you don't want to crush the life out of what you are doing, but even if you do eventually, if you start with everything dimed/compressed/focusing on as loud as you can get it you are losing a lot of creative freedom.