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  #1  
Old 08-04-2010, 08:54 AM
Badcard Badcard is offline
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Arrow 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

OK, how about a thread to discuss the mic emulations of the 11R and how to use them?

First, let's list them :
  • Dyn 7 => Shure SM7
    Based on a large-diaphragm American dynamic
    microphone, the Dyn 7 model has a smooth,
    powerful tone quality.
  • Dyn 12 => AKG D12
    Dynamic microphone with a cardioid polar pattern and special “Bass Chamber” that boosts the lower frequencies in the 60 to 120 Hz range.
    The large diaphragm provides full, rich bass and ensures clean, undistorted reproduction at high sound levels
    Its unique sound established the D 12 as the world’s standard microphone for bass drum and bass instrument pick-up.
  • Dyn 20 => Electrovoice RE20
    The Electro-Voice RE20 Microphone is well-suited for recording and sound reinforcement applications.
    This Variable-D design dynamic cardioid microphone features a heavy-duty internal pop filter to reduce proximity effects, while an internal element shockmount reduces vibration-induced noise.
    Integral blast and wind filters cover each acoustic opening. Bass roll-off switch. 45Hz-18kHz frequency response.
  • Dyn 57 => Shure SM57
    Based on a midsize-diaphragm American dynamic
    mic, the Dyn 57 model has a classic aggressive
    tone with a bright edge and pronounced
    mids.
  • Dyn 409 => Sennheiser MD 409
    Based on a midsize-diaphragm German dynamic
    mic, the Dyn 409 offers a detailed midrange
    and a focused, tight pickup pattern.
  • Dyn 421 => Sennheiser MD 421
    Based on a large-diaphragm German dynamic
    mic, the Dyn 421 model offers deep bass, solid
    mids, and smooth treble.
  • Cond 67 => Neumann U 67
    Based on a classic German tube condenser mic,
    the Cond 67 model offers a warm, crisp sound.
  • Cond 87 => Neumann U 87
    Based on a solid-state German condenser mic,
    the Cond 87 model lacks the fuzzy tube warmth
    of Cond 67, but retains a high level of treble detail
    and nuanced midrange.
  • Cond 414 => AKG C414 EB
    - No Manual Descripion - Info found on the web :
    The AKG C414 EB is a large diaphragm, transformerless condenser with four directional patterns.
    This microphone has quite a large presence peak so it's not the best choice for already bright or edgy sounds.
    Very good results on both male and female vocalists, guitar cabinets, and drum overheads.
    All round good performer, producing good results on almost any source.
  • Ribbon 121 => Royer R-121
    Based on a modern ribbon microphone, the Ribbon
    121 model offers rounded, sweet highs and
    mids, and solid, deep lows

I've put the original name of the emulated mics according to the online ressources.
Although it mentions the AKG C414 EB, I cannot find any description in the manual.
So I've gathered a few info on the web (correct me if I'm wrong).

So, I'm pretty new at this and I have limited knowledge on the subject.
But it seems Digi/Avid went to a lot a trouble to get good emulation of those mics. (too bad we can't have more than one at a time though)

So far, my take is that the SM57 being a huge standard is the go to mic for rock tones.
The R-121 on the other hand is the most "full spectrum" and transparent of the mics.
If you want to hear the "amp in the room" kind of sound, this is the one to take.
Although it might not fit so well in a busy mix.

Here's a nice article that might help on Mic techniques

So you guys, what are your favorite mics depending on which applications?

Edit: Added mics from the ERXP.

Last edited by Badcard; 08-04-2010 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Added info on the Cond 14
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2010, 09:13 AM
blewis blewis is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

Good thread topic.

I don't think the mics are emulations however. When you select a mic on a particular cabinet, you're actually convolving the input signal to the cabinet with the cab/mic combo's impulse response.

An impulse response is a perfect representation of how any system responds to a "unit signal" or impulse. When you perform a process called convolution, you are using a system's impulse response and calculating how it would behave with a real input signal.

The system, in this case, is any cab and mic combination - both on and off axis. So, what you are hearing is a fancy - sorta virtual - recording of Digi's speaker cabinet with their mic in their room.

Side Note: This is one reason why having 11R do two mics or a room mic is problematic - all the cabs are stored as impulse responses. An impulse response is just a bunch of filter co-efficients - numbers in a table.

Side Note2: This is pretty awesome because it means that it's technically possible to use 3rd party Impulse Responses and greatly expand the capability and sound options for the 11R.

The speaker cabinets are the most powerful EQs the 11R has - its just a fixed EQ.

Of course, Digi will come on here in 5 minutes and tell me I got it all wrong.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2010, 09:15 AM
blewis blewis is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

I'd be interested in hearing more about how the impulse responses were generated. What was the impulse fed into the cab/mic combo?
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2010, 11:02 AM
59tweed 59tweed is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

I have had some experience with some of these mics in real recording situations, and I think they sound fantastic in the Eleven Rack. But, because I create patches to be played through a QSC K12 at moderate to loud volumes as my backline solution, I may not use the mics in the manner in which they have been traditionally used on recordings.

So, lately, I have been getting my preferred medium to hi gain sounds mostly using the vintage 30 cab with the U87 off axis. And that is with both my Squier CV Custom Tele and my Custom Shop Les Paul. It provides a great open quality which I find balanced. Not shrill, piercing or excessive in any frequency, with a solid bottom. The SLO Drive channel is amazing with this combination. I also have produced some of my favorite Plexi patches this way. Another favorite is the U67 for adding a pronounced midrange to some low gain and cleaner sounds. Especially if the amp model has enough bass on its own. I've been using this with the Vox and Bassman through their respective cabinets. And on still other patches, I have used the SM57 and 414 where they met some particular frequency needs better than the others. I'll probably be doing something different in a month, so this is really just a snapshot of the patches I've created over the last month.

And yes, multiple mics/positions and user IRs would be stunning additions to the 11R.
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2010, 11:26 AM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

For the purposes of realism, keep in mind that traditionally in live performances using real amps, the SM57 has been the standard, and it's not technically feasible to switch out mics for every song. You may want to keep that in mind when thinking about your live "emulations".

However, that said, this is the 21st century with new technology, so we can throw out the old rules.

By the way, when it comes to studio recording, having read a lot of recording articles about how certain artists recorded their albums, particularly rock, I can say that by far the most common combination seems to be the sm57 and the royer 121. You may want to experiment with duplicating the track and switching the mic to emulate the 2 mic combination and see how you like it.
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2010, 01:00 PM
mikefont mikefont is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

Yep, the Shure SM57, Neumann U87, and the AKG 414 are 3 of the all time greats!


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  #7  
Old 08-05-2010, 12:24 AM
solodallas solodallas is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

A whole great album - 2nd best selling of all times - was recorded with two Neumann U67s per cabinet on a Marshall.
That was Back in Black in 1980.

Even when I had my real studio, I used to use the U67 to record guitars.

I would say that one of the most interesting ways to try and recreate tones with the 11R is read a lot, try to find real information of how things were done for a particular sound and then model it.

Good thread.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2010, 08:24 AM
Bubblegum Bubblegum is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
By the way, when it comes to studio recording, having read a lot of recording articles about how certain artists recorded their albums, particularly rock, I can say that by far the most common combination seems to be the sm57 and the royer 121. You may want to experiment with duplicating the track and switching the mic to emulate the 2 mic combination and see how you like it.
This seems like a pretty good place to start for creating a multimic'd sound, or even just double tracking your rhythm tracks using a different mic each time.

I haven't got my new computer yet, so I'm still waiting to use my 11 rack within the Protools environment, which has given me lots of time to mess around and tweak the settings on the 11R and just listening.

How about duplicating the guitar track and then reamping the second one with the reverb set to early reflection with the mix on 10 (max). I noticed that this sounds pretty close to normal room ambience, so if you mix it in with the dry track, it should approximate the sound of having a room mic on the cab too.

I'll definitely try that out when I am equipped to do so.

So far I'm enjoying the 121, U67 and 57 models.

Of course there's also the EQ which you can use to alter the mic'd sound too. I have managed to approximate the recorded sound of my beloved old Brownface Fender Concert amp by using an EQ before the amp and one after the cab, using the Black Lux model with the 4x10 cab and the 57 mic.

I love that there is so much that can be experimented with this unit.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2010, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

And remember, you can always record the DRY guitar signal along with the processed signal with mic 'A', then re-amp the dry signal through the same Rig but switch to mic 'B'. You can do this over and over, and get as many mics on the cab (or different cabs or amps) on the same 'take'.

The Re-amp capability in Eleven Rack is pretty cool...people are still figuring out new things to do with it.

Have fun!
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:40 PM
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Benoni Benoni is offline
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Default Re: 11R - The (emulated) Microphone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChimp View Post
And remember, you can always record the DRY guitar signal along with the processed signal with mic 'A', then re-amp the dry signal through the same Rig but switch to mic 'B'. You can do this over and over, and get as many mics on the cab (or different cabs or amps) on the same 'take'.

The Re-amp capability in Eleven Rack is pretty cool...people are still figuring out new things to do with it.

Have fun!
Not to mention all the possibilities available to you when you have both the 11R and the Eleven Software.
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