PTMP 7.4 midi bugs

[Servon]

Hi,
Here is the issue:
I have since I 1st purchased PTMP 7.0 tried to figure out the midi issue but to no avail. And you tech savvy people at Digidesign have been no help also.
When I am playing audio files all is well. No hang ups, no crashes.
When I am recording audio into PTMP there are no hang ups, no crashes.
When I am Syncing to my MV-8000 there are no hang ups, no crashes.
When I want to record midi while audio is playing almost always PTMP hangs up, what ever last piece of music was playing stutters incessantly and I get the "Not Responding" warning. I have to shut down PTMP and reboot my computer. I have tried a plethora of solutions but to no avail.


You with all the money may not see this as much of a problem because if you did you would fix this problem or at least give someone a clue as to how to fix this. I never ever had this problem with Acid Pro or any of the other workstations I have used, and the only reason I went to PT is because it had become the industry standard.

I am seriously trying not to bring a bad attitude to this posting but I am so fed up with the quirkiness of PTMP.
Why can't it operate like some of the other less expensive workstations that have virtually no compatibility problems and also have endless tracks.
You have made Pro Tools somewhat unstealable but you have also made it unuser friendly. Now I realize that you could careless about my little ranting and raving but I am a customer that believes in promoting a product when it is something to shout about and I also believe in steering people clear of a product that isn't all that.

I use:
PTMP 7.4cs9 - All my plugins are bought and legal
Midiman Midisport 8x8 - strictly for sound modules like Motif-Rack
Midiman Midisport 4x4 - strictly for the Mackie Control
Please understand that I have used this set up long before PTMP (2 decades) came along and never had any problems with it.
M-Audio Profire 2626 Audio Interface

I built this computer specifically for Pro Tools and its quirky ways:
Win XP Pro SP2 with all the latest updates
Intel Core 2 Duo 3 GHz cpu
4 gb DDR3 ram
I use Western Dig firewire drives for audio recording and storage of all wave files but the sys is on a Maxtor SATA drive.

The system is stripped down to barely nothing.
I really would like for PTMP to give me 90-95% of trouble-free recording if not 100% instead of the other way around.

I know that I am not the only person having this issue, and I don't have any money to go out and buy a whole new set up so I'd appreciate it if you would give a little time to this problem so I can get on with the business of making music instead of the business of troubleshooting.

I guess you can tell from this posting that I am seriously frustrated with PT. If anyone out there has a solution please feel free to share.

[tha]-[acksaw]

Until about three months ago I was running a MP 7.4cs9 setup with a Profire Ligthbridge, which is much like the 2626 as far as sending inputs digitally. I recorded MIDI, while listening to audio all the time. So its safe to say its not a problem or bug thats specific to the ProTools software version you use. I use the MIDI inputs on my Lightbridge, and this is where I think you are having problems. Mind you, I'm not expert, but here is what I think.

First off I know M-Powered is very picky about how many interfaces you can hook up at once. So first off maybe PTMP doesn't like having the 2626 and the two Midisport attached. It might not even like having the 2626 and one Midisport attached. I do know for a fact that you can't use two Firewire M-Audio devices at once. Maybe the case is the same with USB devices so maybe the problem is running two USB devices. Try recording with only one of them hooked up with the 2626. Third, if you go here, neither the Midiman Sport, or the M-Audio replacement are on the list of qualified devices for either PTMP 7.4 or PTMP 8. Not that it means much. I think this list mostly has to do with audio outputs. Thats the standard need of ProTools. It needs to have hardware outputs to function. Since the Midispots are not hardware audio outputs, maybe its trivial.

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?...4&itemid=28796

I'm not sure, but maybe thats your problem. They just can't work with ProTools MP at all, or at least aren't supported, which makes them hit or miss, and Digi has no obligation toward making them work. If you have a MIDI keyboard hooked up sending MIDI date through the Midisport it might be a good idea to try a few other things. For less then $100 you can get a MIDI keyboard that hooks up via USB. Get one of those and see if you can record MIDI data off of that with out having your MidiSports hooked up.

Another thought, and again, I'm not a Midi expert so I'm just kinda guessing here. If you have lots of external gear hooked up to the Midisport and your recording a midi track with its input set to all, maybe ProTools is taking inputs from each of the Midisport's outputs. This might be causing a problem. Maybe try setting the specific channel that your keyboard is hooked up to, instead of all. Not sure if your already doing that.

Generally, if you haven't spent any time troubleshooting, it might be worth it. I know its a pain man, but its gonna be needed if you want to get this fixed. It doesn't sound like we are talking about a bug here. This is a computer or hardware issue, not a PT problem. Unless I'm gravely mistaken. Try unhooking different things to see if you can pinpoint a culprit. If you unhook both Midisports and use the pencil tool to drop a note on a midi track, does PT still crash on you. If not, its safe to say your problem is with one or both of the Midisports. When you drop a pencil note on a midi track its almost the same thing as recording a pass, with the exception being your not sending any data through a piece of hardware. Everything would be done within ProTools.

If none of that helps, I would also suggest, if you want help from the Digi guy on this forum your probably gonna want to take notes and post them to explain the exact process that causes your ProTools to crash. Open a session thats blank, and do what ever it is that makes PT crash. Then post the exact process on this Thread. Maybe someone can pinpoint something in the process that your not doing right.

Hope that can at least get you started.

Nick

[Servon]

Thanks Nick for your suggestions.

I will try some of them when I get a moment. Just a thought, when I am syncing my MV-8000 to PTMP doesn't that require pretty much the same process as when I am inputting midi from a keyboard. Isn't it (the MV) sending midi data, and it is certainly sending it through the Midisport 8x8. I never have any problems when this is being used this way. Mind you the Midisport 4x4 is also still engaged. As far as the Profire is concerned, I have shut down in the panel anything dealing with its onboard midi. So that hopefully there is no conflict.
I have a few friends that use even more radical setups than mine and they don't have any problems, of course they also are using Mac's. Part of the reason that I use 2 midi interfaces is that the Mackie Control won't operate properly when everything is going through the 8x8. When I was using the 410 I tried sending it through the 410 and it worked for a little while then stopped. Also I have tried using the 410 as the sole midi interface because it is an approved device but this severly limited me.

You could be absolutely right that it is my hardware. I understand that it is a chore to get multiple gear to play nice together, but it is so frustrating when I come in the studio with some slammin' ideas and I can't get any of it layed down unless I use my standalone gear, and whats even more frustrating is that although Acid Pro has some editing limitations this very same set up minus the Mackie Control works perfectly with it. The same is true for when I used Cubase.

I am not one to give up easily so I will take your advice and slow down a little and be a little more methodic about troubleshooting. I pray that the troubleshooting woes will someday be nothing but a memory.

Thanks again
Servon

[tha]-[acksaw]

Give me an idea of your setup. I know what hardware but tell me how you hook it up.

Are both midisports send via different USB inputs on the back of your computer, or are they going via a UBS hub? No hub if so!

When your recording a midi performance into ProTools, what are you using to trigger notes? You said you can record midi from the MV-8000 with no problems and thats via the 8X8. So do you have a midi piano sending midi data, and thats whats giving your problems? If its a piano or other source aside from the MV-8000, does it hook up to the 8X8 or 4X4?

I thought the Mackie Control was a USB sent control surface. Maybe its just the Mackie Control Pro that sends via USB. When you say you have problems with your Mackie Control sending on the 8X8, is that when other gear aside from the Control is hooked up? You might try the Mackie Control on the 8X8 without any other gear hooked up. Since the Mackie Control is constantly sending and receiving messages from ProTools, maybe it needs dedicated USB sending. If your trying to record a midi piano through the 4X4, and the Mackie Control is hooked up to the 4X4 as well, maybe thats your problem. If I was running a setup like yours I would definitely consider running the Mackie Control on its own UBD device, even if thats not the problem. Thats lots of signals to be sharing with other devices, and since it controls ProTools its pretty significant to its operation. My guess would be, that when the Mackie Control is running ProTools, if it has a problem or lags on sending a message, ProTools will encounter a problem.

If you don't mind, keep me posted on updates with this problem. I was looking at getting a MidiSport very soon, and its nice to have a idea how to help things work better. And for that matter I was looking at getting a Mackie Control Pro, and then adding a few of those extra banks to add more faders. It looks like a very nice unit.

[Servon]

The 8x8 is in it's own dedicated usb port, and my Mo'Phatt, Motif and MV-8000 are all plugged into the 8x8.

I use the M-Audio Keystation pro 88 to trigger my modules. The MV-8000 triggers its own midi, and all are plugged into the 8x8.

I have the older version of the Mackie Control but all firmware is up to date. It is the only thing plugged into the 4x4, and the 4x4 is plugged into it's own dedicated usb port. All ports are 2.0 and the drivers are up to date.

I know that usb can be quirky sometimes but I thought that I had troubleshot all the bugs out of it.

When midi is playing and I am not triggering from my keyboard there is no issues.

The issue only happens when I am triggering, but it doesn't happen if there is no audio tracks present and I'm triggering midi.

It does not appear that the Mackie is having any problems since I put it in the 4x4.

The Mackie by-the-way is a pretty smooth piece of equipment. It saves enormous time and trouble messing with my keyboard. It was an awesome investment once I figured out how to get it working properly.

The midisport is a piece of equipment that I have used for roughly 20 years. Originally I used a 1 in 1 out because they had not developed the 4x4 or 8x8 back then, but I have used a midiman setup for quite some time. Even back when I was using the Mac Classic and using the Pro 4 workstation. It's always been reliable.

I'll keep you posted.

Servon

[tha]-[acksaw]

In ProTools, can you select any one of the 8 specific Midi inputs from the 8X8? If so, have you tried recording a midi track with inputs set to only your keystation? If your setting inputs to all, maybe its getting inputs from the MV-2000 and the keystation at the same time.

If there is Midi inputs on your 2626, try your keystation into that. Or try it into the 4X4, without the Mackie, just to see if it works. Doesn't the keystation have a USB output. I have the Keystation 49 and it has USB. If it has that, give it a shot. If USB works, maybe the Keystation doesn't like the 8X8.

The best way really is plug your Keystation into the 8X8, all by itself, and see if it works. If it does, start adding stuff till there is a problem. If it doesn't work, try it in the 4X4 all by itself. If that doesn't work then its safe to say the problem is with your Keystation. If the Keystation has USB try that. If that doesn't work then its keystation again. If it works in the 4X4, by itself, but not the 8X8 by itself, then maybe the Keystation and the 8X8 don't like each other. Thats the best way, isolate the problem (keystation) and figure out what works and what doesn't.

Keep me posted!

[Servon]

Well I have tried the Keystation plugged into the usb and at 1st it was fine. I started up a session and while it was playing I threw everything i could think of at it and it seemed to be ok. I let the session play past the tracks in it and was still tinkering with the Keystation and suddenly it seized up.

So the Keystation might be the problem but it wasn't going through the 8x8 only the Motif was registering midi data thru the 8x8, or is the usb keyboard still accessing the 8x8?

In lieu of this developement do I rule out PTMP as at least part of the problem?

[tha]-[acksaw]

My guess would be, ProTools is not your problem.

If you were sending the Keystation via MIDI as well as the USB then try it with just the USB, and take away the MIDI into the 8X8. If your not then maybe try not running the keystation back into the 8X8 to feed data to the Motif. Load up an instrument track instead and put one of the new synths on it (DB-33 or Vaccume or something like that, some kind of VI). Then make a midi track and send to the VI instead of back out to the Motif via the 8X8. Now record on the midi track sending to the VI. If you still have problems recording, its safe to say you need to fix something in the Keystation. If the problems seem to go away, then I would guess it has something to do with your 8X8 not playing nice with the Keystation. Or maybe its just ProTools is having trouble taking with the 8X8. I guess you could just try recording midi from your MV-8000 and use it to trigger the Motif via the 8X8. If that seems to record ok, then its definitely the Keystation.

Keep me posted man! Thanks...

[RichrdC]

Beleive me, I'm a rank, rank beginner compared to probably everyone on this site, but I was racked with PT issues, I mean one thing after another just wouldn't work at all, or was work intermitantly.. All, and I mean all my issues were fixed because of me doing something even I could do..... reformat my computer.. Turned out, I had had someone else work on the computer a number of months ago, and he left himself as the administrator of my system, and gave me another profile and didn't tell me exactly what he'd done.. Might you have had someone working on your system and now you could be dealing with microsoft permissions issues? Sorry to waste your time if you've already been over this sort of thing...

[Servon]

Thanks RichardC,

All suggestions are valid to look at, but in this case I am the builder and Administrator. I wouldn't allow anyone to work on my computers unless they know more than me, and then inform me of everything that they are doing. Although in the end reformatting may be the very thing that I will need to do. I'll let that be a last resort.

Thank you for not staying silent, because I believe that someone will need the very thing you have suggested when they look at this posting.

Be Blessed
Peace

Servon