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  #521  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:28 AM
Max Gutnik Max Gutnik is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by Carl Lie View Post
including the card your correct but the essence of the post holds true. That most likely by that time a new computer will be as fast as my current system with a card. As well as the fact that in three years PCie may not be around anymore.

You need to take the full post in to get what I'm saying.
Computers are getting faster, but they are also getting more latent, not less, as the focus on energy savings, low heat, no fans and extended battery life take precedent over performance. A multi-core processor will turn itself on and off at various intervals depending on the processing, and there will need to be more latency built into the system to compensate for the interrupts.

Even without that fact, there is no general proc computer that can achieve 4 samples of latency while running hundreds of playback and record tracks at up to 192 samples per second.
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  #522  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:34 AM
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Alio 45 Alio 45 is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

Max can you address the main issue please?

Al
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  #523  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:46 AM
dstryrwiz dstryrwiz is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
Computers are getting faster, but they are also getting more latent, not less, as the focus on energy savings, low heat, no fans and extended battery life take precedent over performance. A multi-core processor will turn itself on and off at various intervals depending on the processing, and there will need to be more latency built into the system to compensate for the interrupts.

Even without that fact, there is no general proc computer that can achieve 4 samples of latency while running hundreds of playback and record tracks at up to 192 samples per second.
The problem with that statement you just made is that we are not in post production. Find me nearly anyone here that's just in music production and see if they ever use hundreds or playback and record tracks for anything? Unless your job is to individually mic full orchestras as your regular routine, there isn't too much of a use for that feature set in music production. Having the ability to have 768 tracks is great for post, but just entirely unnecessary for regular music production, and even just having the track counts available with the CPTK and a good computer is perfectly acceptable for many people in music production, yet as computers weren't as good before, many people invested in HD systems, and even now do to a degree as well, but as the new features that "justify" this massive cost for the HD users are completely unnecessary for almost all of those in music production, how can they justify that cost, especially when the field of music production has incredibly small budgets at this current time? I don't know the number of people I have seen as of late say they may just switch to Reaper out of frustration in this. You have to think about who you're marketing this product to more, as although the people in post production may be able to afford these upgrades, those in regular music production just can't, and it's a little unfair to just bunch the 2 groups together like that when coming up with a pricing scheme, especially for the software update, as the people with Pro Tools and the CPTK were able to upgrade for $300 and get just about all the features that are available to those that aren't getting the HDX cards, yet those with the old HD cards and HD Native have to suffer from a $1,000 upgrade for the exact same feature set.
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  #524  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:48 AM
LSD-Studio LSD-Studio is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by Alio 45 View Post
Max can you address the main issue please?

Al
I don't think he's allowed to
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  #525  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:56 AM
Greg M Greg M is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

Max,

With all due repect, we're not talking about laptops with HD. A lot us build our own audio PC's and the first thing we do is turn off all that regulating stuff and build to insure proper cooling. Unless you load your audio PC up with a bunch of stuff that we know you shouldn't have on an audio PC, interupts will be fine. Also, not that many of us still buy into recording at a 192k sample rate.

What's the basis for the HD software upgrade price? You're giving it away if you buy the HDX card. It just looks like you don't really want to sell the software upgrade and the $1000 is a poison pill that drives you to buy the HDX card.

You have to admit, this doesn't fly with HD|Native users who already have the new I/O.

Respectfully,
Greg
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  #526  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:03 AM
Max Gutnik Max Gutnik is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Max,

You have to admit, this doesn't fly with HD|Native users who already have the new I/O.

Respectfully,
Greg
As I mentioned previously, customers with newer systems have a means to get the latest software update by being on an Avid support contract. Since then we have discovered some issues and we are trying to resolve them. I will hopefully have something to report tomorrow.
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  #527  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:03 AM
LSD-Studio LSD-Studio is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by Greg M View Post

What's the basis for the HD software upgrade price? You're giving it away if you buy the HDX card. It just looks like you don't really want to sell the software upgrade and the $1000 is a poison pill that drives you to buy the HDX card.


I think that might be the reason for the steep price.
But what AVID doesn't seem to realize is that there's more dynamics to it than "we just make it more expensive, then people will wait and buy HDX cards=profit"...
That's not how it works avid! Your users are getting extremely pissed off by the way you're treating them, THEY ARE ABANDONING YOU in big numbers (just like you abandoned them) and they will NOT buy HDX but migrate to a different DAW instead.

you are (were) the industry standard because of your HD users...and you're losing that base as your supporters by kicking them in the nuts with that upgrade price!
Just have a look at your stocks, your facebook page, the countless audio forums and STOP IGNORING THE ISSUE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
As I mentioned previously, customers with newer systems have a means to get the latest software update by being on an Avid support contract.
and by "newer" you mean "less than 3 weeks old"...that's ridiculous, people have spent thousands of dollars just a few months ago....and even in the fast moving computer industry 4 months or so would qualify as "newer"....not for AVID
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  #528  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:08 AM
Greg M Greg M is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

Thanks Max.

Greg
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  #529  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:16 AM
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Alio 45 Alio 45 is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

I work in music, post and education.

Not all post is in Hollywood. Much of my post work is TV where budgets are being cut as advertisers are looking at other mediums. I find I'm often working longer hours for less money.

$1500 for an upgrade is difficult to swallow just now (PT8 - PT10) and the new HDX hardware is off th radar.

I also teach in a college where I have, over the years, got them to buy 2 HD systems and 20 LE systems. I have also advised hundreds of students as to what PT system is best for them. Many will now be using HD systems. I'm possibly responsible for putting countless thousands of dollars in AVID/Digidesigns pocket.

After this from AVID, If I continue to send students down the PT route I feel I may be giving them bad advice.

Al
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  #530  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:21 AM
dstryrwiz dstryrwiz is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by Alio 45 View Post
I work in music, post and education.

Not all post is in Hollywood. Much of my post work is TV where budgets are being cut as advertisers are looking at other mediums. I find I'm often working longer hours for less money.

$1500 for an upgrade is difficult to swallow just now (PT8 - PT10) and the new HDX hardware is off th radar.

I also teach in a college where I have, over the years, got them to buy 2 HD systems and 20 LE systems. I have also advised hundreds of students as to what PT system is best for them. Many will now be using HD systems. I'm possibly responsible for putting countless thousands of dollars in AVID/Digidesigns pocket.

After this from AVID, If I continue to send students down the PT route I feel I may be giving them bad advice.

Al
Hopefully if more people from the world of post come in here and voice that it's even outside of their available budgets due to cuts then maybe Avid will get it. For people in music production this is beyond absurd, but if the people in post, which the feature set was built to benefit most, are now being deterred by the price, maybe they'll finally get it.
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