Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-28-2014, 04:07 AM
DFN DFN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London
Posts: 15
Default How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

Hey Guys,

I am wanting to mix a short 2 min doc, mainly voice and little background noise or FX, to -23 LUFS with a True Peak limit of -1dB. I am using NuGen ISL and VisLM.

If mixing to -23LUFS is it good practice to only pay attention to the integrated loudness and more or less ignore the short term and momentary? For example, should I allow the short term and momentary values to fluctuate around -23LUFS, i.e. + or - 1dB, but more importantly ensure that the integrated value never exceeds -23LUFS?

Dan

Last edited by DFN; 10-28-2014 at 07:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-28-2014, 11:22 AM
DFN DFN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London
Posts: 15
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

I have resolved this issue. After a little bit of research I have gone and downloaded LM-Correct. This normalises a track to an LUFS value as well as true peak - making everything R128 compliant with ease. This was the plug-in I was looking for.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-28-2014, 01:11 PM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,038
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFN View Post
I have resolved this issue. After a little bit of research I have gone and downloaded LM-Correct. This normalises a track to an LUFS value as well as true peak - making everything R128 compliant with ease. This was the plug-in I was looking for.
Some broadcasters specify max momentary and short-term levels along with LRA, but the DPP spec doesn't currently. Just mix and aim for an LRA of 15 or so.

Great as all Nugen stuff is, don't rely on LM-Correct unless you're only a few LUFS off, it can alter the dynamics of your mix if you do anything too extreme.

It's called LM-Correct, not LM-Automix for a reason.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-29-2014, 05:43 AM
DFN DFN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London
Posts: 15
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

Thanks Tom, you've answered a few questions for me and it's been great!

The broadcaster I am mixing for does not specify a short term or momentary loudness, however, they do ask for a programme loudness of -23LUFS + or - 1LU.

Firstly, am I correct in assuming this is the integrated loudness? Secondly, if I ensure a programme loudness of -23LUFS, and the broadcaster doesn't outline a specific momentary or short term value, can I more or less ignore these? For example, if I ensure an integrated loudness of -23LUFS is it then ok if the short term and momentary loudness fluctuated and exceeded -23 by any amount?

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-29-2014, 07:20 AM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,038
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

Programme and integrated loudness are the same thing.

I thought Programme loudness was the gated from the short-term not momentary reading?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-29-2014, 07:34 AM
DFN DFN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London
Posts: 15
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

All sounds good and things are way clearer now.

Does anyone know where I can download an examples of a mix that adopts EBU R128? Perhaps there is a website or maybe it's hidden somewhere on the EBU page?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-29-2014, 07:50 AM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,038
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdarbyshirebryant View Post
A popular misconception (or translated: I thought that too and I've heard others state it) however:

The measurement parameters for ‘EBU Mode’ are:
1. The momentary loudness uses a sliding rectangular time window of length 0.4 s. The measurement is not gated.
2. The short-term loudness uses a sliding rectangular time window of length 3 s. The measurement is not gated. The update rate for ‘live meters’ shall be at least 10 Hz.
3. The integrated loudness uses gating as described in ITU-R BS.1770-2. The update rate for ‘live meters’ shall be at least 1 Hz.

The ‘integrated loudness’ shall be measured using the gating function specified in ITU-R BS.1770-2, summarised as follows:
1. using an absolute 'silence' gating threshold at -70 LUFS for the computation of the absolute-gated loudness level;
2. using a relative gating threshold, 10 LU below the absolute-gated loudness level;
3. The measurement input to which the gating threshold is applied is the loudness of the 400 ms blocks with a constant overlap between consecutive gating blocks of 75%.
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense that they use that for integrated and short term for LRA.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-29-2014, 07:52 AM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,038
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFN View Post
All sounds good and things are way clearer now.

Does anyone know where I can download an examples of a mix that adopts EBU R128? Perhaps there is a website or maybe it's hidden somewhere on the EBU page?
A mix is a mix, just it's loudness is -23LUFS. You have all the info you need, not sure what you'd gain from listening to an EBU R.128 mix as it would be different content. Most UK TV is now R.128.

As for the suggestion to find something that sits around -23LUFS, you could take some audio and normalize it to -23LUFS to get an idea of comfortable listening levels, or calibrate you speakers to around 79dB SPL which should suit most rooms for TV mixing.

If it's for 4oD, are you sure they want R.128, that's for broadcast, there's a chance that they may want a louder mix for web.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-29-2014, 04:36 PM
antonis's Avatar
antonis antonis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,222
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

I find for me a handy practice to be having my first passes, roughly levelling up to -23LUFS Short Term, and then "see the bigger picture" and mix according to pic and aesthetics looking at the integrated -23 LUFS.

As mentioned about, do not rely on LMCorrect for your mixes.

If you know your room, with calibrated speakers you'll find that your mixes hit that +/- 1 LUFS mark without even looking at the histogram. This latter is subject not to be the case - at least for me - on highly dynamic scenes.
__________________
1. Mac Pro 5.1, 2.66GHz, Twelve Core, HDN, AVID MTRX, Sync HD, PTU 2018.10, OS X 10.12.6.
2. Mac Pro 5.1, 2.66GHz, Twelve Core, Yamaha Dante Accelerator, PTU 2018.10, OS X 10.12.6.
3. D-Command ES, 24-fader.
4. Eleven Rack.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-11-2014, 10:57 AM
DFN DFN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London
Posts: 15
Default Re: How to mix using integrated LUFS / R128

Hey Everyone,

I mixed to a programme loudness at -23LUFS and tried to keep my momentary loudness to hover around the -23 mar. I took a screen shot of the resulting history chart. Does this look normal if trying to comply with EBU R128?

Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2014-11-11 at 17.51.54.png (71.2 KB, 0 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Theatrical Mix, Dialog in LUFS ? A Plea to the Pros joachim Post - Surround - Video 11 01-31-2013 10:17 AM
Lufs versus Dolby loudness metering Studio Studio Post - Surround - Video 7 01-06-2012 02:42 PM
New 13 in MBP integrated graphics mhelm01 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 1 03-09-2011 08:53 AM
Integrated video OakBloodThree 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 07-24-2008 05:28 AM
Mackie MCU.. how integrated? JonnyGinese 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 10-09-2005 08:04 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:58 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com