Good way to export from 25 fps to 24 fps?

[subwoof]

I mixed a few Imax trailers in 25 fps this week, then converted the tracks to 24 fps for digital layback in this country. I export the files from the 48 khz, 25 fps session at 50,000 khz (pal to NTSE), then add them (not import them) to a new session set at 48khz. I ignore the warning that the files will play back at the wrong pitch. Once they are in the new session, I consolidate the files and delete the original 50,000 khz files. Once I do that, the tracks are in sync at 48 khz with the 24 fps picture, but of course, the pitch of the mix goes down noticeably.

I just wondered if someone knows of a good way to maintain pitch during the export, without a lot of digital artifacts.

Thanks!

[matt-o-]

AFAIK there is no way to maintain pitch. When I have to do framerate conversions I usually mix in stems. The E stem will stay pitched down, as the pitchchanging algorithms don't work well with noisy stuff. The M stem gets pitch converted (ca. 0.68 up) via Timefactory. For the D stem it depends, if it is mostly production sound I am very careful because of artefacts and the transparency suffers - usually I don't change pitch, if it is mainly ADR stuff, I do pitch change, but listen through the whole film for errors (transient doubling). Sync may get a little bit loose (+- half a frame).

As for the workflow, I think you can equally well work with Session import of the original 25fps in to a new 24fps session, select copy audio, then tick the SRC button and set the SR to 50k. The advantage of this procedure would be, that automation would be time corrected as well.

Personally I do not like 25->24 transfers too much, as the slowing down is much more noticeable than the other way 'round.

Greetings,
Matthias

[colinato]

Check out Serrato Pitch n Time. It's not 100% artifact free, but usually does a really good job compared to others I've tried.

This is what I use for this type of job. You can actually enter a percentage value to pitch up or down. In your case I think you would just enter 4% up. There may be a demo you can try.

This won't pitch during export. You will have to pitch it after the fact and create new files.

[minister]

Originally Posted by subwoof

I just wondered if someone knows of a good way to maintain pitch during the export, without a lot of digital artifacts.

Thanks!

Hi Mike!

As has been said, no. You are essentially re-clocking the audio with this method.

Things that I have found to work are XForm which uses iZotope's Radius. There will be a wait with a long program.........

Radius in general is quite good, but you are limited with the XForm version. You can use Radius in RX2 Advanced for more features (like Mix or Solo), though I think it does not do multi-channel files. Thus, more time.....

I have heard that Waves Timeshifter is good, and Pitch 'N Time Pro, and the DIRAC algorithm -- which is available through Wavelab.

[ErikGuldager]

It's still hard.
We bought the Dolby 575 pitch shift unit several years ago, and it's often still the best alternative. It's always the best sounding for dialogue, but not always for music. Drawback is that it's real time.

Pitch and time can work very well on music but it won't work well on all types. It can also introduce phase issues even though it's supposed to be multichannel phase accurate.

Most stretch algorithms is not good enough to keep the sync, so imho in general it's best to first sample rate convert to the new speed and then pitch correct. With the Dolby unit we can do both at the same time but we need to use two daws, one varispeeded at the correct speed playback through the Dolby pitch shifter and then re-record on the other daw.



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[minister]

Originally Posted by ErikGuldager

Most stretch algorithms is not good enough to keep the sync, so imho in general it's best to first sample rate convert to the new speed and then pitch correct.

This is my experience as well. In my post I meant to imply that SRC is the best for getting things to time, and other options should be used for pitch correction.

[matt-o-]

Prosoniq Timefactory2 is pretty good in keeping sync. It used to be a bit more than +- 1fr, but with the last updates they managed to reduce it to less than +- 0.5 fr. I prefer the MPEX3 over the Dirac algorithm. Timefactory is also dealing properly with 5.1 stems. And of course it's always better, as it is already mentioned here, to do two passes, one with SRC for timing change (in PT) and one for pitch.

[subwoof]

Thanks everyone for your input. I have Serato Pitch N' Time, so I may experiment with it. I just hate that the music sounds flat, and the Voice over drags, so I will try some of your suggestions.

:)

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by subwoof

Thanks everyone for your input. I have Serato Pitch N' Time, so I may experiment with it. I just hate that the music sounds flat, and the Voice over drags, so I will try some of your suggestions.

:)

Pitch N' Time sounds bad on dialog. At least last time I tried it. It's also quite rubbery on sync.

[mr.armadillo]

Originally Posted by Frank Kruse

Pitch N' Time sounds bad on dialog. At least last time I tried it. It's also quite rubbery on sync.

I did extensive testing and found Serato Pitch N Time the best sounding plug on a full mix with solid sync (SRC first, then pitch up), TimeFactory 2 being second, if you fiddle with the settings.