Cheap upmixing:)

[Farhoof]

You need HD software to run surround, there's no need for Avid hardware. Though some time ago the HD software was only sold as a bundle with hardware, that restriction has been lifted.

[MatzeHD]

He has a Protools 10 and if its not a HD or HDX System, then he need the Complete Production 2 License for Surround!

[meetrandeer]

Sorry for delay.
Yes, i have HD version of PT.
I bought full licence for 499$.
Is there HD whitelist for Penteo using?
I know the one of upmixing plugins can separate lead vocal to Center channel (Sophia from ADL support told me Penteo can do this through Hard center preset).
I'm planning to try UPM-1 Soundfield plugin (hardware version have too many regards from broadcasters) and Auro-2D (595$).Second plugin have one interest feature which can extract voice and back-vocals (center channel extractor).
Who have experience with these plugins?
Here are 3 tracks, each have duplicate with suppressed lead vocal (very excellent!!).However,third track has little artifacts.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/d6o8qx
What i want to get?Lead vocal from song (even non-hard center panned, effect center 100+) is isolating to C, after that all components without C can be mixed down to stereo.Output file contains material without lead vocal.
Can penteo do this work?
I can see too much instrumental tracks with back vocal only...

[MatzeHD]

Hi!

Again, you have a HD version from Protools 10 or which version and a Avid audiohardware too or whats your sounddevice?

Every Upmix plugin or with manual mixing can extract L+R signals to the Center Channel. That means monaural content, if the voice has to many stereofx in the original, like reverb, chorus delay etc.then you have problems for a good channel seperation. For you, its actual impossible, to isolate directly Instruments or Vocals from a finished Stereoendmix. All Plugins work with other tricks, like L+R=M Signal L-R=S Signal and manipulate this with some other effects to make a surround upmix or whatever!

What with you mixsamples? I hope you have these in lossless audio not only as lossy mp3?
My criticism to this, its a unparticular mix, the harmonics are very bad and to high compressed and to summarized.The mix has to low nuances, a exteme low dynamic range (to highly compressed) a bad frequency scaling from the instruments etc! It sounds like a typical loudness mix with to a much treble level, sorry! It sound like a Harmonic Plugin application for the mix like enhancer or so? If yes, it was to much or to excessive.

Continuing, you can not fully isolate from these samples any vocals, this is impossible for all plugins on this world! :)

[meetrandeer]

Hi!
I have PT HD 10.3.10, my audiodevices are Accel Core Pcie and 192 Digital i/o interface with 2 cards.
I found that voice's reverb, delay and other effects can be isolated if it panned to center of panorama.These files found on Internet, i discovered such files from 2007,they're processed very bad with isolated another hard-center panned signals such as guitar and other.As rule, drums can lose some frequencies but it was fantastic result.
Many songs have instrumental version with back-vocals (if present) in our time,i don't believe they are studio versions or stolen from owners.
Some upmixing plugins are very expensive, more expensive than some DAWs.
Here is screen of Penteo plugin, it hasn't "Preview" button like in Mike review.
This screen from PC version, however mac version with same problem

[MatzeHD]

Hi! :)

Ok, as conclusion, than do you have a full surround capable Protools System!
I've downloaded Penteo Demo too, but do not test it until now, because I need time for this and the demo has a timelimit!

This looks like the option from the most other plugins too.
You have some modes, I want to interpret the presets!

Stereoplus looks like a cheap mode:
normal Stereo in front and rears too, like in your carradio!

LCR looks like Dolby Prologic 3 channelmode,LCR with SR mixed to L+R after processing

Quadro looks like the 70s Quadromode with passive de-matrixing , normal Stereo in the Front and L-R Signal in the Rears

Hard Center may be with a intensiver decoding and mixing from the content, like dolby prologic, all monaural content is mixed to the center with a higher dominance regulation

Triangle and Penteomusic I dont know, may be special version from the other presets or like Haloplugin, de-matrixing with a little bit more special tricks.

So then you have the Faders to change balance etc.
For you, after upmixing stereo content, you have NO perfectly seperated channels after processing like on a native 5.1 Surround Mix!!!
This is that what we discuss here and which plugin is may be better as other plugins.
As example, if you process your stereotracks, you become a 5.1 upmix, this sounds may be halfway good but in all cases you have a extremly bad channel seperation. Content from the front will be included in the rears and so on.You have only a perfect channel seperation from Center to Rears, if the plugin works like in dolby prologic mode.
Otherwise you have always content from L and R in the Center L and R in the Rears and so on. Therefore, you can not eliminate or separate a vocal or content from Rear or Front or what ever, if you have only a finished Stereomix!
Do you understand?

[meetrandeer]

Hi!
Yes, i understand about that but some recordings without lead vocal can't leave my mind, they are not studio version.
By the way, i downloaded and installed TC Unwrap (1185$ Full license!!!) demo version for 10 days.Also i installed legendary upmixing plugin UPM-1 Soundfield.
Note.You may use demo plugins in second and more times if you get new usb ilok dongle.
Both plugins are RTAS TDM even for expensive Unwrap.
I don't like use RTAS plugins and bounce result and now my last hope is Auro-3D.
This plugin is AAX for PTHD 10,11 for Mac.Most sound-designers give best rep for it (without delay and reverb,good channel separation).Center extractor have advanced options to separate unstatic signals.
I made brutal upmixes in past:
Using Center Channel extractor plugin from Adobe Audition, we can separate Rear and Front parts of stereomix.Just change Center Channel Level.
Center Channel Level -40 dB=Ls and Rs.
Center Channel Lever +40 dB=Rf+Lf.
I used SonicWorx Isolate to extract voice's (Hard C) curves from Lf+Rf(front) like Steven Bernsey's Prosoniq introducion.Now this software not available but you can try another software ADX Trax Pro.
I'm still stuck with absent button "Preview" of Penteo plugin's window.
I didn't found possibility to use demo Auro-3D

[Cheesehead]

If you email Auro from their site they will give you a time limited demo.

Its still my favorite upmixer out there and I've tried them all.
It has a very solid centre image with music and doesn't make beats all sloppy like some do.

Its not a perfect foldown as it uses some ambience in the upmix, but its close enough that its never bothered me or any Composer i've worked with.

[meetrandeer]

Thank you for reply.
Just downloaded Auro Pro's guide and was impressed.
This manual is very informative including i/o configuration(buses,routing).
Unfortunately,this plugin is working with HD hardware only (HD Native or HDX).
It seems,most AAX upmixing plugins require HD hardware
I think,MatzeHD will see "Preview" button in his Penteo's window.
Who can confirm successful work with AAX upmixing plugins on Accel systems (PTHD10)?
That's bad new if i need to buy HD Native...

[SDDP]

I don't think there is a PERFECT upmixer that fits all situations. Just like EQ's, Compressors, etc. Every situation will need a specific plugin. Which is why it's always best to have a few. I was on the fence with Halo and Anymix (already had Waves upmixers, except DTS since they DID not include that in Mercury, bummed about that). And just bought both. Eventually I'll get DTS if there's a sale.

However these all have their uses as a LOT of TV, Film, etc use them in Hollywoodland. No plug in can replace technique and experience.