Cheap upmixing:)

[MatzeHD]

Yes! :)

But according to the advertising promises like Nugen: sounds all perfect and so on. However, there is no new inventions at the moment to make a good upmix to 5.1 or more from a stereo signal. All procedures or plugins use basically a de-matrixing with more or less modification and mix signal parts from the front or center again to the rears, thats all. There has been nothing new since decades.

On the Halo Plugin is a diffusion option, with this you can change the balance to the rear channels from a slightly modified L-R Signal or the original stereo signal thats routed in the frontchannels.

Resume for me at the moment after my short analyses!
Halo works like a Dolby Prologic 2 Decoder with some more setting options and modifications, but it sounds not better. Because Halo don't use in the most cases a dominance regulation like Dolby for a better channel separation and you can identify many comb filter artifacts between the channels. The most presets makes a very muddy and mushy sound after upmixing!

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by MatzeHD

The most presets makes a very muddy and mushy sound after upmixing!

No they don't.

[Leverson]

Yeah, MatzeHD your posts are rife with misinformation. I have used both Penteo and Halo and think both of their upmixes sound incredible, and both are quite customizable in terms of how you want things to spread and sound. They are NOT as you describe, they do NOT introduce comb filtering, and they are DEFINITELY NOT similar to Pro Logic encoding/decoding.

[MatzeHD]

The main problem, my english is bad and may be I can not explain this good!

I'm used for tests critical material!
I made not only a simple listening comparison, I've analyse the channels after the upmix, changed the balance between front and rear again and in some cases and presets from HALO appears comb filter artefacts!
Some Presets like Preset 02 Atmospheric5.1 or so, works like a normal Prologic 2 Decoder, this is fact!!!! This Presets works ok for me.
If you know how Prologic Decoding and de-matrixing work, then you can see this on this presets definitely, but it sounds like without a dominance regulation like Dolby Prologic or DTS-Neo6 upmixer!

You can make a comparsion mit Prologic2 Decoding and some presets from Halo, they sounds almost even!!

I write this again, many other Halo presets mixing parts from content/signals in the rear channels that to have no place in. A monaural kickdrum, bassline etc. from the original Stereomix must be placed on the center or front channels, but not partial in the rears! This is a example that what i mean mit low channel seperation and muddy and mushy sound!
With Dolby DP1 or DTS Neo6 you have no signals from the center in the rears, this is the next fact and this make a excellent channel separation from the front (especially the center) to the rear speakers after upmixing!

If you try to change the HALO diffusion option from 0 to 100 and you are listening only to the rears, you can hear that this option intense the L-R Signal (S-Siginal) in the Upmix! And this is a de-matrixing procedure equally to Prologic Decoding. I hope you understand this!

Essentially, Halo used in some Presets de-matrixing procedure like Dolby DP1/2 with a little modifications and in other presets a mix from this and other tricks, but with more artefacts and lower channel separation!

I also need to mention that I have 20 years experience with surround sound listening, I know how it works and I made some productions in the past which encoded in Dolby Prologic and i work recently on few native 5.1 productions!
For Surround listening I have access to a coaxial reference 5.1 me-geithain RL 904 System with sub (I made the upmix comparison with this) and a 5.1 coaxial me-geithain RL 901K system with sub too!

Thats all for now, maybe i make some audioexamples for the forum in a few days, if i have time and i will check the Penteo Plugin too!

I forgot, back to topic! :) For few years Fraunhofer released MP3Surround. There is no plugin available, only a Playertool. With MP3Surround you can make a 5.1 Upmix + file extract too and i think it was not bad, it was a good upmixer!

[meetrandeer]

Hello everyone!
I just purchaised Penteo Pro 7 and want know what are hardware requirements.
I found used Penteo on Ebay and contacted with seller.He told me this plugin is aax native,he used it on HDX for upmixing music.
Who have experience with work on Accel systems?Can Penteo 7 work on Accel core Pcie?Or i need to buy HD native?
Thanks in advance.

Here is some information how Penteo works:
The components of a stereo audio signal can be divided into three categories:
i) Monaural (Mono) components — signals that are the same in both channels. These make up the “phantom center”
ii) Differential components — signals that are totally dissimilar between channels, including hard-panned signals
iii) Intermediate components — signals that are partially similar between channels
Penteo works by separating out these components from the stereo signal and reproducing them in discrete surround channels. The Center channel contains only the Mono components. Differential components are usually reproduced from the side and/or rear surround speakers. Intermediate components are mainly sent to the front Left and Right speakers. The overall effect is to wrap the stereo panorama around the listener in the shape of a horseshoe, creating a fully immersive sound field that remains faithful to the original mix. No reverb, delay, filter or steering effects are used.

[MIKEROPHONICS]

I think penteo 7 is AAX so will only run in PT 10. I think that runs on accel systems. It's a long time ago. Penteo is a native plug and uses the computer not the hd cards. It is an excellent upmixer.


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[meetrandeer]

Finally i got Accel Core Pcie+192 Digital i/o and now trying use Pro Suite 7.
However Penteo menu's window doesn't have preview button like Mike's review at youtube.After Analyze-Render procedure i can see only two lines in 5.1 destination track.
What is output of inserted stereotrack?Bus,physical output of interface or something else?What's type of new track must be?Aux input or audiotrack?
I tried all combinations of possible input/outputs,watched Mike's review carefully but nothing.
When i try to activate Penteo at 5.1 empty track through Inserts A-J, only downmixer available.Penteo available using Inserts A-J for stereotracks only.
Same problem on Mac version.Official support cannot give me completed answer but now Pro suite 7 works on mac platform (requirements from site).
My current version of PT is 10.3.10
Thanks

[MatzeHD]

Hi!

For any surround funktions in Protools, you need a HDX DSP System, HD Native or a normal Protools 9 or 10 with Complete Production Kit!!!
Which PT License do you have?

iii) Intermediate components sounds like a bad upmix without a good channel seperation! Same sound content from Front in the Rears = immersive sound field!? *haha* This is pseudo- and a bad surround sound!
Some other functions sounds like a dematrixing = Dolby Mode!

I've downloaded the Demo Plugin too, but not I did'nt tested yet, but soon if I have time!

[papalou]

Originally Posted by MatzeHD

For any surround funktions in Protools, you need a HDX DSP System, HD Native or a normal Protools 9 or 10 with Complete Production Kit!!!

Nope… Surround has been there from ProTools version 5.1, and you had surround with 24Mix, HD and HD Accel hardware. Meetrandeer has an Accel system, so it's surround capable.

[MatzeHD]

This is right, I mean on newer Systems!
But you have only Surround functions with Digidesign Hardware Systems (TDM, HDX, HD Native System) or with a extra Complete Produktion Kit License until Protools 9+10 if you use non Avid Audiohardware!
You have NO SURROUND Functions with a "normal" Protools license and a third party Soundcard until Protools10!!!