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  #11  
Old 02-28-2018, 07:07 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by s.d. finley View Post
Hi Tom, are you using a mac or pc? Also, turning hyper threading off should be a sticky.

oh never mind I see windows 10 on your profile!
with windows 10 it makes sense because of the mmcss class scheduling I brought up in another topic.. I believe there *will* be an OS fix for this sometime this year.
Disabling hyperthread in windows can be done on the bios level once and forgotten. Much better.

On mac it's not making any difference whatsoever here, other than cutting overall synth polyphony on multiple instances, and overall effects instances by about 35% when disabled.

I tried it on both my macs,and my friend with the 6 core 3.46 cheese grater had the same results, he leaves it on also.

But even with macs, one system could react differently to the next, so it's always best to try any possible "fix" if one has issues.

I just hope Avid fix the low buffer issue once and for all and make it comparable to other DAWs. Problem then solved.

Are people actually bugging avid with reports like the OP's? I decided i would write a lengthy report to them to have it by Monday US time, and even though my issue is not identical, it all seems to be coming from low buffers.. So i feel as many of us should write as possible.

If Avid answers that the computer is not powerful enough, they need to be made aware, even with videos if possible, that NO other daw has that issue, not even studio one. I have already made a video of me trying to play a synth in pro tools at *64* buffer, and constant drop outs with the cpu spiking red every time there is a dropout, and over 80% at all times..Then i go into S1/Logic/Cubase/Reaper/Ableton and play the exact same patch at *32* buffer with zero issues.. and cpu shows no higher than 20 or 30%.. The difference is massive. I can replicate that 8 times with no ill effects cause all those DAW's have live mode multithreading.. i even start adding effects directly on the instrument channel. The issue is pro tools, not the computers. They need to fix it.

I am getting an imac pro, i decided (3GHZ 10 core, turbo 4.5ghz believe).. after 2 months deliberating between windows and mac.. the plugin in instance problem on windows especially with UAD was what closed the deal, as i can use 100 UAD effects in a project or more if i have enough DSP (26 chips currently, 8 more on the way). This affects many windows DAWs, it's to do with dynamic and static linking to the runtime library.. it should be dynamic and many use static for their plugins. Steinberg trying to implement a fix from their end for Cubase at least.. You literally cant add plugins after a certain amount.
SO, if the low buffer problem persists on one of the most advanced, powerful computers in the world, and certainly the most powerful mac ever created, then Avid won't have a leg to stand on.

If anyone who already HAS an imac pro could make some videos of a 32 and 64 buffer arming large quantities of audio tracks for record, and Vi's, it would be great also.

Cheers
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2018, 07:36 PM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
"Hyperthreading off" works best here. (Increased stability.)
Opposite for me. Never found a reason to turn it off, unless I really wanted less processing power!!!
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2018, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
Opposite for me. Never found a reason to turn it off, unless I really wanted less processing power!!!
Hi Steve, I think it's your way for most users, I just never fit in.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2018, 09:12 AM
s.d. finley s.d. finley is offline
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

So an update here. I did still have an occasional buffer error when I would first open a session and hit play even though the cpu meter was very low and there was no spiking. I hit play again and everything was ok. For the most part, disabling hyper threading is defiantly giving more functionality than having it on.
As per TNM, yes its an Avid issue. Avid needs an update to fix this issue.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2018, 09:29 AM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by TNM View Post
with windows 10 it makes sense because of the mmcss class scheduling I brought up in another topic.. I believe there *will* be an OS fix for this sometime this year.
Disabling hyperthread in windows can be done on the bios level once and forgotten. Much better.
....
I am getting an imac pro, i decided (3GHZ 10 core, turbo 4.5ghz believe).. after 2 months deliberating between windows and mac.. the plugin in instance problem on windows especially with UAD was what closed the deal, as i can use 100 UAD effects in a project or more if i have enough DSP (26 chips currently, 8 more on the way). This affects many windows DAWs, it's to do with dynamic and static linking to the runtime library.. it should be dynamic and many use static for their plugins. Steinberg trying to implement a fix from their end for Cubase at least.. You literally cant add plugins after a certain amount.
SO, if the low buffer problem persists on one of the most advanced, powerful computers in the world, and certainly the most powerful mac ever created, then Avid won't have a leg to stand on.
...
Not sure how many times that I can state that this problem does not affect Pro Tools. I have never seen it affect anything other than Cubase.
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2018, 10:12 AM
Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

It's worth mentioning that Cubase is by far the most common DAW in use so most tweaks you read about are directed at Cubase users.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:36 PM
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Default Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
It's worth mentioning that Cubase is by far the most common DAW in use so most tweaks you read about are directed at Cubase users.
Bob, I hate to sound like my 15 year old......but none the less “Prove it”

Show me the data for that info, please, I would like to see it.

I wouldn’t have guessed it...I would have guessed it to be Pro tools
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2018, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by YYR123 View Post
Bob, I hate to sound like my 15 year old......but none the less “Prove it”

Show me the data for that info, please, I would like to see it.

I wouldn’t have guessed it...I would have guessed it to be Pro tools
i would have guessed Cubase as well ... i did a quick search but not finding anything solid .. something from 2004 that says over 4 million for cubase but nothing i could find for PT ..
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2018, 02:03 PM
rus5 rus5 is offline
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by bom619 View Post
I have been plagued by work stopping 6101 errors since the update. Cant even play through song without it stopping dead! Opened a support ticket but nothing Avid suggested helped at all. Someone on Gearsltuz mentioned something about hyperthreading so I did some digging.

Test session was 24 tracks (from analog tape) at 88.2k buffer set at 64 samples. 120 instances of mono D-Verb. Im using https://www.whatroute.net/cpusetter.html to turn off hyperthreading. Will now cruise all day long at 80%+ without stopping. With hyperthreading enabled, I cant even put it into record without redlining. Distribution on processors changes dramatically between playback and record but at least its usable. Sorry about the extra text box.

Saw no performance difference with the new "Parallel task optimization" option high/off.

Mac OSX 10.13.3, Pro Tools HD 2018.1, Mac Pro 5,1 2 x 3.46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon, 32 GB 1333 ram, all OWC SSD drives, Orion 32, ATC SCM300a

Update: Yes... Pro Tools HD (not vanilla). Session stopping DSP surges only occur once an hour now which is very manageable compared to performance before disabling hyperthreading.

The 6101 errors you're talking about must be related to or even caused by the same resource allocation issue ProTools has had since Avid released the first 64-bit version about 5 years ago, v11.0). For many of us, they show up as -917X errors where "X" is usually 1, 2 or 3 which halt recording or playback instantly. In my case, my 12-core i7 cheese grader running current everything won't run a two track session with three plugins AT ALL with a 128 buffer size and barely runs it for a second or two at a 256 sample setting. Oddly, during the nearly 5 years I've been trying to work this problem with Avid, hyper threading has never even been suggested as being related to the issue.

But I tried this, turned off hyper threading (so running 12-cores rather than the virtual 24 I get with HT) and the problem is DRASTICALLY reduced!! Obviously I paid a lot of money for 24 virtual cores which work fine with every OTHER program on Earth so this is hardly an acceptable solution, BUT, it's a GIANT clue as to what the problem is!! Also, a temporary workaround. Thanks very much for this post!!
  #20  
Old 03-01-2018, 02:42 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Errors and hyperthreading

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Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
Not sure how many times that I can state that this problem does not affect Pro Tools. I have never seen it affect anything other than Cubase.
nope.

i knew you'd quote me to try correct me again so i unmuted this single post, but even if pro tools does not schedule 2 mmcss threads per core (which you have no proof it doesn't or me vice versa - yet), the windows 10 limit of 28 logical cores total per app still applies.

Now, besides the one time you answered this question when I asked about it, by kindly telling me "I was asking things above my pay grade", you said you hadn't experienced the problem. On the other hand, there is someone on Win 10 with a 12 core machine experiencing the problem in this very topic (cpu spikes), and solving it by turning off hyper threading. I don't think that qualifies for "not sure how many times I can state that this problem does not affect pro tools". Why not prove that pro tools does NOT schedule 2 mmcss threads per core? I'll be waiting.
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Last edited by TNM; 03-01-2018 at 04:35 PM. Reason: added info
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