Hear pop sometimes during quick punch

[Riverblack]

I have been reading up on other experience with this, but haven't found a reason behind it....
When using quick punch in PT 12 (Mac) I sometimes hear a pop at the point where it starts recording. Sometimes I don't. I see the most common response from folk is to use crossfading as a solution. I was hoping to find a reason for why it happens. I am already doing a fix action on a track by punching I don't want to have to do another fix action if possible. Seems to me you shouldn't have to.

What am I missing.Thoughts?

[Carl Kolchak]

Are you using any kind of modulation effects in the session?

If there's some kind of free running LFO, or Delay plug-in, with some sort of modulation / Chorus etc, it could be heading in a positive "voltage" direction, when the pre-record track that you're punching in to was heading in a negative direction (or just at a different phase in it's positive cycle).

[Riverblack]

No i am running my bass into the Hi-Z input of the Apollo twin. with no plugins running on the session at all.

[albee1952]

Oddly enough, when I had the DIGI003 and used the footswitch to do punch-ins, it would pop badly most times. Moving the same footswitch to FS jack on my Presonus Faderport would almost never pop. In any case, I got use to doing quick trim edits. Sometimes just the slightest move would eliminate the pops(and a short cross-fade covers the few that that are /were left behind. Not sure why, but punch-in/out on my current HDN rig is fine in this respect

[Carl Kolchak]

Originally Posted by Riverblack

No i am running my bass into the Hi-Z input of the Apollo twin. with no plugins running on the session at all.

Sorry, for some reason I was under the impression you were printing pre-recorded material from one track, punching in to pre-recorded material on a second track, in order to correct a portion of the mix.

If you're dealing with punching in a live performance, then there's now way you're going to get away without doing some kind of fix, meaning crossfades at least.

In your case, as you are using an Apollo, it's possible there maybe some sort of small latency, or handover between the Apollo's own mixing software, going in to Pro Tools - assuming you are even using their mixer (I believe it has a Pro Tools mode, but not sure if that's relevant when you're only using one interface).

[Riverblack]

I guess I will have to get on the cross fading. It seems like for long sessions like audio books where you have to punch in a lot to go back and fix mistakes that would take a lot of extra work. From what I am seeing people say, that is how its always been done.
Thanks for the replies.

[Kris75]

Some simple understanding of punching in needs to be talked about.

It PTHD you have an auto fade feature. Although this helps, it does not solve the problem. The problem is that even though you are playing the same part, you are not playing it in EXACTLY the same time as the original. This means that the waveform does not have the exact same polarity as the first. Sometimes it is inaudible, but most times it means that it is. When the waveforms do not match up you get a click or pop. This is the reason you use fades.

It's not a glitch with Pro Tools, but the way audio works. It happened on tape too.

[GeoffLee]

Originally Posted by Riverblack

I guess I will have to get on the cross fading. It seems like for long sessions like audio books where you have to punch in a lot to go back and fix mistakes that would take a lot of extra work. From what I am seeing people say, that is how its always been done.
Thanks for the replies.

In Preferences/Editing, if you set Quickpunch Crossfade Length to anything other than zero, Pro Tools will automatically create crossfades at punch in/out points. Otherwise, you can use Batch Fades (command+F) afterwards to create crossfades all at once.

[Carl Kolchak]

Originally Posted by Riverblack

I guess I will have to get on the cross fading. It seems like for long sessions like audio books where you have to punch in a lot to go back and fix mistakes that would take a lot of extra work. From what I am seeing people say, that is how its always been done.
Thanks for the replies.

Yes, manually repairing edits is how it's always been done.

No, punching in to fix mistakes in audio books / radio plays / Voice Over etc is not how it has always been done.

How it's always been done, is to record the entire thing in a linear fashion (without stopping the recording, except for planned breaks), going back over fluffed lines as many times as it takes (taking appropriate notes on a sheet of paper / dropping markers in the DAW), and editing it all together afterwards.

Punching in to fix mistakes is really only done with music overdubbing, and to some extent ADR - though with ADR you tend to loop record multiple takes in place, and if necessary comp together phrases from the different loops.

Take a look at the "Insertion follows playback" feature / preference (use the n key, when in command focus mode)

I know it's a change of workflow for you, but might be worth considering, and certainly worth trying a few times.

You might also find this thread interesting.

Originally Posted by Kris75

The problem is that even though you are playing the same part, you are not playing it in EXACTLY the same time as the original. This means that the waveform does not have the exact same polarity as the first. Sometimes it is inaudible, but most times it means that it is. When the waveforms do not match up you get a click or pop. This is the reason you use fades.

It's not a glitch with Pro Tools, but the way audio works. It happened on tape too.

Exactly!

As I said, whether it's for a live input signal, or a modulation source that does not repeat absolutely identically every time - the polarity of the signal will not be in the same phase cycle, even if the live input, and the pre-recorded material both happen to be going in either a positive, or negative direction.

[The Weed]

I work by myself doing commercials and long format in a booth separate from my computer. Must be my age and experience, but I just record straight through and edit at the end. If I have to change something after editing, I listen back to the tone and pace and just go in the booth and record the change with some extra words or lines at front and back and cut in the least amount of audio necessary to make the change. For me personally, and with my set-up, there's no way I would be overdubbing when first doing a script.

On a separate but related note, I've updated commercials and narration even a few years after I've done them instead of having to completely rerecord. I could use Loop Record for this but rarely if ever do.

Cheers,