Broadcast Audio Levels for PBS??

[Ken P]

i have been posting audio for video broadcast programs and commercials for around 4 years now, and by no means am i as well seasoned as most of you, but i'd like to think that i have a good system that at least is pretty close to correct. as of yet no one has complained about my work. i mix to VU meters, 1k tone set at zero. my program materal averages at zero pretty well, a few +1 or +2 peaks here and there, and sometimes but very rarely a +3 - my meters never peg at +3. i also reference 2 independent sets of VU meters.

i have been setting up my mixes this way and laying back to digital beta master with no complaints until today, from a PBS station. they are telling my my levels are too hot, even though i have consistently sent these same levels to them for years. their exact words were "the levels are hitting +2 too much, and we would like to see the whole program level come down 2 dB". they refuse to accept it and say i have to remix and resubmit.

in general, can someone tell me if my mixing for broadcast practices are incorrect? and, are there different regulations for PBS stations that i am missing out on?

[Roy Pahlman]

It really sounds like a new QC person was told to reject anything that hits a certain level and they were blindly following orders. No way to tell what your peaks were on VU meters obviously, and that is what the networks usually reference. I think what you have been doing is fine, although I'm surprised peaks haven't been a problem before, if you just monitor VU. If you like the mix, I would lower the overall level by 2db and give it back to them.

[SimpleNatureSpirit]

Check and make sure a 'normalize' setting didn't pop up somewhere in your burning process.

[irwinmfletcher]

Ken,
Roy is absolutely right. PBS hires many "QC" people that reject audio mixes purely on peak levels or on their perception of overall level being too high. It is all a crap-shoot. I have been mixing for PBS for 10 years and love to play the "level game" with their "QC" people. It's fun because they are all idiots. Sometimes they kick back programs and sometimes they don't. If you keep the peaks under -10 and the average levels in a respectable range you should be fine. Good luck!
---Fletch

[Ken P]

thanks for all your replies... i did fail to mention i also monitor peak meters and i am in fact averaging below -10 with peaks, definately nothing hits so hard that goes over 0 dB. i should be safe, which sounds like you guys agree. so just to confirm, your collective responses tell me i have been doing right with my methods of mixing for broadcast, i.e. averaging at 0, and occasionally peaking on a VU at +2 is in fact normal, just not on this particular day in PBS land??

this guys is standing behind his 21 years at that same position, so it's his professional word against mine, and he has the ball so i am pretty much at his subjective "i feel like accepting/rejecting this today" mercy. i will remix and resubmit and i guess from here on out err to the lighter side when it comes to these programs.

when you guys mix programs, like anything for discovery or HGTV, etc. , where it is a "how-to" show with dialog and background music, etc., do you guys mix the same way? average 0 with peaks above and valleys below?

thanks again for your responses!

[TVPostSound]

I used to mix the same way as you, even though the networks never kicked them back, I always believed they lowered my program at the head end, or let the broadcast limiter hit it.
After auditioning my mixes at Roy Pahlmans place and discussions with Dr. Sound (Marti) I have actually started mixing my dialog driven shows at -2 dBVU avreage with peaks at -12 dBFS. My shows actually now sound louder and clearer on the air.

Go ahead and drop your master fader 2 dBs down and ship it back.

[bigbadhenchman]

I find this somewhat typical of stations like PBS and up here the CBC. Even though the general delivery reguirements are -10 max peaks, CBC was -12.
Maybe their are also RMS issues as well.

BTW, what kind of meters are you using?

We use Dorroughs, and never get a show back because of peaks.

[tomcat]

i usually set a brickwall limiter such as an L2 to contain the peaks to -10 dbfs for broadcast stuff. Then QC can't complain about peaks, period.

[Ken P]

I used to mix the same way as you, even though the networks never kicked them back, I always believed they lowered my program at the head end, or let the broadcast limiter hit it.
After auditioning my mixes at Roy Pahlmans place and discussions with Dr. Sound (Marti) I have actually started mixing my dialog driven shows at -2 dBVU avreage with peaks at -12 dBFS. My shows actually now sound louder and clearer on the air.

Go ahead and drop your master fader 2 dBs down and ship it back.

same here, i too thought "well any peaks the magic broadcast limiter will take care of". but on the other hand this was somthing i never soley depended on, i always averaged at "0" and made sure peaks never went past -10. your advice though is very good and your response may have a great impact on mixes i do in the future. i may just pull back a bit on the dialog driven stuff.

i ended up dropping the mixes -2dB on the show in question as well as the rest in the series that i have done thus far. unfortunately i do not have top quality meters, no dorroughs, but as it turns out the PBS distribution center did. most likely this would be a worthy investment. i may have to pull some strings : )

[Ken P]

i usually set a brickwall limiter such as an L2 to contain the peaks to -10 dbfs for broadcast stuff. Then QC can't complain about peaks, period.

what kills me is the exact response from the guy over the phone was "the mix is hitting +2 more than i would like it to. i'd like to see the mix pulled back 2dB". when i checked the mix only a few times did it peak near -10, and that was because of a hammer here and there. he refused to let it pass.

my original way of thinking was for me to stay away from limiting, just utilize compression, the broadcasters take care of the limiting. maybe i should implement a limiter on dialog driven mixes just as a safety, and average at -2VU/-12 peak on my mixes?