D-Command replacement

[Barry Johns]

Originally Posted by Will Russell

Hi all!

Question for the D-Command users here. When and if the time comes to replace your D-Command, what would replace it with? Seems like there is no current lateral move offered by Avid. S3 is clearly a step down and the S6 is an expensive step up.

I'd buy another used D-Command........

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

I'd buy another used D-Command........

POTD !!! You win Post Of The Day Barry

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by YYR123

POTD !!! You win Post Of The Day Barry

I had a very long look at both second hand D-Commands and D-Controls before I got the S6. It was a tough decision. There had been a 16 fader D-Control on eBay UK for months and it dropped as low as £10K. It looked like new!

What put me off is that the blue ones are end of life and the grey ones will be next year. I know they still work great but for how long? I wouldn't put it past Avid to break them like it did with the Control 24.

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

I know they still work great but for how long? I wouldn't put it past Avid to break them like it did with the Control 24.

Yeah me either, people are still pissed about that. However isolating customers is never a good business practice.

[Barry Johns]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

I had a very long look at both second hand D-Commands and D-Controls before I got the S6. It was a tough decision. There had been a 16 fader D-Control on eBay UK for months and it dropped as low as £10K. It looked like new!

What put me off is that the blue ones are end of life and the grey ones will be next year. I know they still work great but for how long? I wouldn't put it past Avid to break them like it did with the Control 24.

The units are dropping so much in price, its easy to cross that road when it happens. There are way to many people using the D-Command and D-Control professionally, it would be Suicide for Avid to intentionally brick them for at least another 7-10 years.

Doing that to the Control 24 was only upsetting a bunch of local recording studio guys who's studios were trending death as a result of the industry, too many folks in post using the D-Command/D Controls, and those are the people that will actually pay the PT subscription extortion fee. Avid can't risk upsetting those people. They have been foolish lately, but I can't believe they are that insane.

[Drew Mazurek]

If you made me pick, I suppose it would be this, but with my trackball:

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

If you made me pick, I suppose it would be this, but with my trackball: - "S3 with Dock"

This is the reason the S3 with the dock would have to be my choice....I can't play around with those big boys.....too much $$$

Originally Posted by Marsdy

A plan for a 24 fader fully loaded M10 is £1749 per year ex-tax //Overpriced IMO but that's Avid!

The S3/Dock combo look great, but do they provide the same level of integration as the ICON's? Don't believe so from everything I have seen. Really nice integration and workflow but I don't think it's a lateral move from the Icon's

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by YYR123

I can't play around with those big boys.....too much $$$

I could but won't.

S3 with Dock is $6500 (better with dealer discounts), next step up is $22k for entry level S6.

They are ignoring arguably the largest market IMO.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

I could but won't.

S3 with Dock is $6500 (better with dealer discounts), next step up is $22k for entry level S6.

They are ignoring arguably the largest market IMO.

It definitely looks that way.

Something between the S3 and S6 would have been perfect for me. However, I made a judgment call that Avid would be unlikely to ever make an "S4". I'm even more convinced of that now because the S3/Dock package is essentially a modular S6 Lite. Also, the price Avid charged for a new D-Dommand is just too close to an S6 M10 for it to develop a whole new product pitched between the S3 and S6. If people could afford a new 24 fader D-Command they can almost certainly afford an M10.

What seems more likely to me is that once the S6 is a year or two older, Avid will either reduce its price or more likely still, offer a more generous hardware exchange.

Time will tell if I'm right!

Would Avid put an S3 and Dock in the same chassis? I wouldn't hold my breath for that!

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

I'd buy another used D-Command........

Yup. I just did this. Found a 4 year old main unit ES version in mint condition with brand new faders for less than than the price of an S3 alone. I also found a virtually unused 24 fader ES model for $6500 but I just don't have room for it unfortunately...

I researched the crap outta this and the more I looked at the S3/Dock combo, the more that seemed like a sideways move and in some ways a step back from the DC. There were some real shortcomings such as:

-No custom plugin maps (apparently none of the Eucon devices can do that!?!).
-No Live room Listen back channels (the DC has 2)
-The talkback button shares a button with another function, is latching only and there is no "auto" setting.
- When set to EQ mode, the dock knobs/display only follow the first EQ insert and cannot cycle down the inserts. Same with the Dynamics.
- when displaying EQ plugin GUI on the iPad display, turning the knobs on the dock changes the parameters on your regular PT display, but the curves do are NOT displayed on the Dock! Seriously...WTF!?!
-The programmable softkeys have no scribble strips, so you have to memorize what they do. The DC by comparison has entire section of scribble strips - one for each softkey that displays their function. In fairness, this is what the iPad is for, but then what is the point of all those unlabelled buttons if we are just going to use the iPad display anyhow, which brings me to the point that there is a ton of overlap between the S3 and Dock. Other than the knobs, the entire dock can be replaced by the S3 and an iPad running PT control app.

I'm really glad that I read every inch of the user guides for these products. I made notes and then verified my concerns with an Avid Product specialist who shrugged each criticism off with "what do you expect? - it's a low end, budget controller" His solution for me was to buy an S6 for literally 10x the price. And I still wouldn't have custom plugin mapping

Avid has completely blown off a major part of the audio market by not offering a comparable controller to the DC in the $15-30k range. So...I doubled down and let my support plan lapse, bought a second 5.1 mac pro as a backup and plan to stay here at 12.7 for a very, very long time.