Waves Mercury Bundle and Neve plug-ins!

[Andre Knecht]

[…] why are you so upset with waves?
jeff dinces

Hi Jeff,

I encourage you to go read some of the past “exchanges” we’ve had around here about Waves policies and WUP-ASS in particular. I’ve always strived to present my objections in detailed fashion — as opposed to blanket negative statements. Some of the posting are long and I’d rather not rewrite it all. Despite their age, they — sadly — remain accurate and current to this day.

To be sure, I do not recoil from controversy, nor am I bashful about defending myself against personal attacks. However, I’m also trying to do my part in keeping the discourse on a civilized level.

Last but not least, I commend you for not hiding behind a pseudonym.

IHTH.
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[LoZion]

Soooo, what about them plugs?

[cerberus]

hi andre;

when looking through the archives, what i see most is that the day pt7 was released, you and many pt users felt compelled to start using it that day. at that moment, your waves plug-ins became functionally useless.

from this perspective, i see that digi was very adept at marketing pt7...they did so well to make users who upgraded feel like the whole world was in their pocket... but it really wasn't.

for me, an upgrade to pt7 means buying new hardware from digi... so while you are so happy to just install your new software and get free plug-ins from digi for a cheap upgrade fee... it isn't that way for everyone. eventually we all wake up one day and find out that digi has dropped support for our hardware. maybe then one needs to buy a new computer, or something else expensive, just to qualify to use the new protools software.

so we have two choices to manage our daws... we can buy them and use them as they are, or we can always look for upgrades and apply them constantly... as if not doing so would prevent one from getting work done?

i think waves have improved wup since you first complained. probably you were right, the price was too high. but the idea behind wup is that nobody knows what digi will do in 2007, maybe the code will need to be re-written again.

people used to brag what a great deal uad plug-ins were... not anymore since uad dropped tdm. and i think now we can see exactly why it is costly to support tdm and to be a protools user. for pt7, rtas had to be re-coded too.

this was the case for all plug-in makers. a few companies gave up and offer wrapped vst only now. imo, waves are doing their users a service by keeping the backward compatibility that digi promised going. this way you can open a session created in an ancient version of protools on protools 7.2 hd accel and even the plug-in settings will recall. that way you can throw away your old protools and buy new protools and not worry you will still need old protools for any reason. that is most convenient for top professionals; it is a luxury which other platforms don't have, and it needs to be paid for.

i am sure you feel sympathy for me too because i woke up one morning to discover that my digi hardware would no longer be supported by digi... probably you said to yourself that day: "i'm glad it wasn't me".

jeff dinces

[Andre Knecht]

Hello again, Jeff,

Ironically, while I did purchase PT7 the very day it hit the shelves at my retailer of choice, I never installed it. There are two reasons for that.

First and foremost, I have been busy mixing records non-stop since before that day. Mindful of lessons learned in the past, I don’t change horses during a race. Let others, more adventurous users, hit the walls first.

Second, based what transpired since then, I have no intention of moving to PT7 unless I can upgrade every plug I own to their latest incarnation. The only one not available to me at the moment is the latest version of Waves’ WaveShell, because my WUP-ASS ha expired a while ago.

So why did I purchase PT7 in the first place? Again, two reasons.

First, regardless of whether it was to be installed, I wanted to read its new reference manual and familiarize myself with its new features.

Second, because I like to support companies which deliver a certain amount of bang in exchange for monies received. (Remember, we got two WUP-ASS-free plug-ins of choice bundled with the upgrade.) I can positively say that for Digidesign and its ProTools updates.

Alas, I still cannot say the same for Waves and its reprehensible policies. When the company’s WUP-ASS marketing fodder is finally matched by its actions, I’ll be the first to sing its praises. (The same way I do when discussing the sonic qualities of Waves products.)

While Waves may have lowered its WUP-ASS fees months ago, it has not changed the policy’s basic tenets, rules and implementation. Which leads me to ask… “Is there such a thing as ‘being only half as immoral as before’?” And if there were, would/should that be enough to be deemed acceptable? The answer is very much a personal issue for each of us.

By all means, do as you see fit — just don’t expect me to sign off on it, or take it lying down.

IHTH.

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[cerberus]

hi andre;

i don't know what you think it is immoral. digi made it too expensive for tc electronics and univesal audio to stay with tdm.
you don't get that third party plug-in makers are given a difficult challenge; some are not making money from selling to tdm users. it looks that they were losing money... why else to cut the flagship format of the industry? but waves will still offer vintage and maxx-volume for tdm. so there is the payoff, for you and every other tdm user.

jeff dinces

[Lee Blaske]

digi made it too expensive for tc electronics and univesal audio to stay with tdm.

TC Electronics is still with TDM. They brought out new high-end products, but dropped their old ones. In the case of UA, they're still marketing their software/hardware to PT users via a VST to RTAS converter (although I kind of expect Digidesign to find a way to break things so that products like UA and Duende can't be used).

My understanding was that Waves, with the Waveshell, had an efficient and economical way to do things. All the plug-ins need to be written only once, but the Waveshell allows them to be used with VST, AU, RTAS, TDM, etc., so there's no duplication of labor for Waves, and their costs are lower.

Lee Blaske

[DC2light]

If you need to please start another bash thread but not here. What about these plugins?

[Steve MacMillan]

I've been testing them and they sound fantastic. The Neve ish EQ has got the midrange really right, and it is a new level of realism with modeling overload non-linear characteristics. Call me biased but they are all over my mixes these days.

STeve

[25ghosts]

man - mcdsp got me turning red - I start to believe they'll never get around to release they ml4000....I have never seen no company advertise so long and postpone so many times....McDSP is slipping....IMO - Only

[25ghosts]

sorry to correct u - but tc electronic are very much supporting tdm - they have released 4 great tdm plugs this year and there are more to come....So )))

And to all those hating WUP : Why do u have to start nagging every time somebody posts someting about waves...Keep it at home it's getting REAL REAL boring.